I've Been Storing Powder and Primer's Wrong

[joshb]

Which powder ? If a powder spontaneously combusts it’s not safe in or out of a safe.
Added, I suppose one could store powder in the garage next to the lawn mower full of gas or on a shelf above the battery charger and grinding area or maybe next to the furnace. Lots of bad places where at least in safe a person has a little time to get out of a burning home and that’s the key with all fire suppression systems.

Egress

Yeah. A guy could store powder in all kinds of stupid places. If a can of powder starts to burn inside a safe full of powder, you won’t have time to “egress”. You’re first indication of a “problem” will be the explosion.
Put some powder on the ground and light it. It’ll burn with a fizzle. Now put some in an enclosed space, like a cartridge and ignite it. What happens?

 

[Clancy]

Yep

One of the well known BR guys, I wanna say Lester Bruno, lost a corner of his house when powder spontaneously caught fire.

It’s your house though….

 

[10XSHOOTER]

I store my primers and powder in an old refridgerator, cut off the cord and stick it in a corner. insulated fridge will help keep temp stable.

 

[JoeDuke]

A safe with primers and powder stored in it is called;

A bomb!

 

[Fuj]

The ATF has guidelines for a proper magazine. Rules and
definitions have changed over the years. My fridge, even
with pop open doors no longer fits the rules. With the new
transportation labels designating smokeless powder as an
explosive, by law, we can't store in a residence. Your insurance
agent is another factor. Even though I store in my home, if
something happens, I'm "SOL" if things go wrong and gets
investigated by the fire marshal.......Just saying !!

 

[K22]

Interesting and enlightening post. I never thought about this issue before, and it appears I should be thinking about it.

For about 50 years I've stored reloaded ammo, power and primers on open separate shelves on my reloading bench, powder and primers in original containers. Very seldom does powder last more than 5-6 years before consuming it. These are stored in a den area that is relatively climate controlled, i.e., heat in winter, AC in the hot summer days.

The post about spontaneous powder explosion is quite alarming and I never heard about that before.

I'm rethinking storage issues but don't have any other options - garage is too hot and humid in the summer and the basement is damp even with a dehumidifier. Besides, any incident in either of these alternative locations would create a catastrophic accident too.

Suggestions welcome. Thanks.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

One of the well known BR guys, I wanna say Lester Bruno, lost a corner of his house when powder spontaneously caught fire.

It’s your house though….

Arnold jewell lost a front porch

 

[Clancy]

Interesting and enlightening post. I never thought about this issue before, and it appears I should be thinking about it.

For about 50 years I've stored reloaded ammo, power and primers on open separate shelves on my reloading bench, powder and primers in original containers. Very seldom does powder last more than 5-6 years before consuming it. These are stored in a den area that is relatively climate controlled, i.e., heat in winter, AC in the hot summer days.

The post about spontaneous powder explosion is quite alarming and I never heard about that before.

I'm rethinking storage issues but don't have any other options - garage is too hot and humid in the summer and the basement is damp even with a dehumidifier. Besides, any incident in either of these alternative locations would create a catastrophic accident too.

Suggestions welcome. Thanks.

I’m not gonna say keeping it inside the house is ok, but that IS what I do.

Most of what I buy, I consume rather quickly so I’m not concerned about it. I do have some powders for loading up ammunition for old family heirlooms and stuff, and I open those and check smell and color 1-2 times a year. I burned a couple of pounds of 4320 last year. Other than that, never had to cull any.

 

[Dave M.]

I've got kitchen cabinets in my reloading room full of powder jugs & Primers in bench drawers.
I'm thinking... Don't store them in a place pressure can build up ....
aka the B word...

I did this until I heard a crash one night and went downstairs to find the entire cabinet filled with powder and bullets had torn from the wall (I didn’t mount the cabinets). Now I have built heavy duty open air elevated shelving above my reloading benches.
Dave

 

[Dub]

Do you guys keep loaded ammo out of the safe also?

I have a Liberty Ammo Can safe that stores all my loaded ammo

 

[Intell]

I use a broken upright freezer for powder storage in my basement.
I used to keep it in an old commercial refrigerator in my outbuilding but didn’t like the big temperature swings from -0 to near 100 in the summer. I don’t have room to spread it out, I have near 150 lbs.
Now I’m worried about the spontaneous combustion, I’ve never read that before either.
How many feet do you separate each can?? How do you store several pounds and keep in a cool place?

 

[JimPag]

Because some powder has been known to spontaneously combust! It’s rare, but it has happened. Do you feel lucky?
Every once in a while you’ll read about a recall or see a post about powder “breaking down with red dust”. That’s the problem.

The red dust your talking about was problematic with those old Dupont and IMR metal cans. They would rust from the inside out.

 

[jpx2rk]

I have read that smokeless powder comes in plastic bottles is for safety reasons. The plastic will melt, preventing the powder from being contained in an enclosed container, and will just burn, probably causing other plastic bottles to melt, with more powder burning but not causing any explosions. Primers would probably go bang as well from the heat. I've also read that loaded ammo will pop off like/similar to firecrackers as the loaded round is not in a chamber, so any pressure from heat will not equal to what occurs when a round is fired in a chamber.

I store reloading components on shelves, in cabinets, plastic storage tubs, etc., none of which are airtight in a climate controlled environment. I store loaded ammo in plastic ammo boxes and crates, none in airtight containers.

 

[Minshooter]

The red dust your talking about was problematic with those old Dupont and IMR metal cans. They would rust from the inside out.

I once "de-rusted" some IMR4064 from some of those cans.
Poured it several feet above a 5 gal pail in a strong breeze, then transferred it into plastic powder bottles.
Afterword, it appeared clean, still smelled like powder should, and chrono tested identical to a new jug.
My experience only. Today, I would just use it for fertilizer, but frugality reigned strongly at the time.

Does anyone know of any documented lab test of "rusted powder", in terms of self ignition?

 

[Jager]

Does anyone know of any documented lab test of "rusted powder", in terms of self ignition?

Dunno about lab tests, but there have been a number of documented field cases of spontaneous combustion of smokeless powder. It definitely can happen. Poudre B, one of the very first successful smokeless powders from back in the 1880's, was very unstable.

On a more modern note, here is an official recall, from seven years ago...



Explosion isn't really the concern when storing powder in a can or a safe. What is a concern is, simply, fire. And since smokeless powder contains its own oxidizer, it becomes very difficult to extinguish once ignited. I don't know of a fire suppression device or system that would be effective in a residential situation.

But what's also true is that examples of spontaneous combustion are extremely rare. I have quite a lot of powder stored at my house, of all different types, some going back to the 1980's. Shooting is what I do and who I am and I'm not giving it up. I'd venture that a whole lot more houses blow up from gas leaks than from smokeless powder problems.

I'm good with the odds.

 

[Dave M.]

I use a broken upright freezer for powder storage in my basement.
I used to keep it in an old commercial refrigerator in my outbuilding but didn’t like the big temperature swings from -0 to near 100 in the summer. I don’t have room to spread it out, I have near 150 lbs.
Now I’m worried about the spontaneous combustion, I’ve never read that before either.
How many feet do you separate each can?? How do you store several pounds and keep in a cool place?

There is no logical reason for sealed powder stored on a shelf in a basement to spontaneously combust. Just be smart. Put in mid room level on an open shelf. Not on the floor because of flooding and not up by the ceiling because electrical lines up there and temp swings are higher on the ceiling of the basement. If powder spontaneously combusted, Cabela’s wouldn’t store 100+ pounds on the shelf (when they used to have any powder on the shelf).
Dave

 

[K22]

I’m not gonna say keeping it inside the house is ok, but that IS what I do.

Most of what I buy, I consume rather quickly so I’m not concerned about it. I do have some powders for loading up ammunition for old family heirlooms and stuff, and I open those and check smell and color 1-2 times a year. I burned a couple of pounds of 4320 last year. Other than that, never had to cull any.

Yea, this issue never entered my mind until I read this post. I really don't have a viable alternative for storing powder and primers, so I guess I'll keep doing what I have been doing but keep an eye on the powder.

As I said, everything is stored in the original factory containers. Also, my reloading table and component are not near any ignition sources, gas or electric heating devices, etc. Also, rarely does the powder get over 5 to 6 years old before being consumed.

 

[cmysix]

I have inherited my fathers reloading stuff, 65,000 LR, 45,000 SR, 45,000LP primers and about 600 pounds of rifle and pistol powders , unopened in 4,15,30 pound metal kegs. Winchester and S&W Alco primers some from 1971, some of the powder kegs are from the 60's I think? stored in a basement in Ill. for a time 70's 80's 90's in 2005 they moved to Florida, in the garage in 20 mm ammo cans , some not. I have not had any of it fail yet.

 

[Skeet69]

I was taught to store powder in an area you would be comfortable in. Not too hot/cold/humid.
Mike B

 

[kd4avp]

I have a reloading building that has 2 - 12 x 12 sections. My son and I insulated half of it and installed an AC unit. Keep all the powder stored in wooden boxes out of 1 inch thick Russian Birch plywood. I work in the furniture industry and it is readily available to me. Primers are also stored in the same type box across the room. Everything is just a roll away in my chair. Venting is the key and the wooden boxes do a great job and maintain a stable temp year round.