I've Been Storing Powder and Primer's Wrong

[Tesoro]

I understand Chris, tell me where you’re going to safely store the powders and primers ?
Out in the shop next to all the power tools ?
In the basement next to the furnace ?
In the garage next to the combustion engine in your car ?

No I store just what I am using in my dedicated little loading room in my house. As I live on the coast I wrap my primer boxes in stretchy plastic wrap to keep out moisture. The bulk reserve stuff is stored in my standalone shop in sealed plastic containers. I dont think there is really any hazard to properly storing some or all of your powders-primers in your house if they are isolated, ie in a closet. If your house catches on fire and reaches that stuff, then it will just burn fast for a few seconds and be over, but the house will still be burning no matter! As long as I dont have propane applainces in my house I feel good !

 

[Charlie-NY]

I keep my powder and primers the same way the big stores do, on shelves. I sure don't have the quantities that many of you have shown at your local Scheels, or wherever, so I can't imagine that I'm not properly/safely storing the stuff.
FWIW - the primers are not near the powder. All of my components are in the basement, which is climate controlled, and not in the room where the boiler and hot water heater are.

It's kind of surprising that no one markets powder magazines specifically designed for homeowners.

 

[Doom]

I keep my powder and primers the same way the big stores do, on shelves. I sure don't have the quantities that many of you have shown at your local Scheels, or wherever, so I can't imagine that I'm not properly/safely storing the stuff.
FWIW - the primers are not near the powder. All of my components are in the basement, which is climate controlled, and not in the room where the boiler and hot water heater are.

It's kind of surprising that no one markets powder magazines specifically designed for homeowners.

If you read the NFPA requirements/recommendations there is no requirement for a magazine. Powder properly stored is a fire hazard and the limit is based on limiting the heat release and gas generation that can take place as long as it is allowed to burn in an open (non contained) environment. Primers stored in DOT containers are not consider to be a serious problem as the containers are designed to prevent one primer from setting off a change reaction in normal situations where a primer might ignite. In a fire the quantity limits the potential danger for primer ignition.

The NFPA a non government run organization. Its primary purpose is to limit the loss of life and property and typically evaluates major fire losses and provides recommendations to prevent future losses. The National Electric Code that your house was built to is actually NFPA 70E.

 

[Dave M.]

I have read that smokeless powder comes in plastic bottles is for safety reasons. The plastic will melt, preventing the powder from being contained in an enclosed container, and will just burn, probably causing other plastic bottles to melt, with more powder burning but not causing any explosions. Primers would probably go bang as well from the heat. I've also read that loaded ammo will pop off like/similar to firecrackers as the loaded round is not in a chamber, so any pressure from heat will not equal to what occurs when a round is fired in a chamber.

I store reloading components on shelves, in cabinets, plastic storage tubs, etc., none of which are airtight in a climate controlled environment. I store loaded ammo in plastic ammo boxes and crates, none in airtight containers.

Same reason all vehicles now use blow molded fuel tanks.

 

[ebb]

Lots of speculation about metal ammo cans that i would have agreed with before my mentors house burned down. He stored all of his ammo in the GI metal ammo cans and was very impressed with how they preformed. He said that after the fire he picked up and examined all the ammo cans and they all had bowed lids that allowed the pressure to escape slowly but that every bullet and case was still in the ammo can after they had cooked off. He told me keep your guns in the safe, keep ammo in a GI can outside the safe. I've read all the laws about a 1 inch cabinet for gunpowder and primers, where do you get 1 inch material to make a cabinet from? All they plywood and sheet goods used in cabinet construction are 3/4 inch or less. I guess you could have a custom milled boards made 1 inch but why? I looked at Gander mountains powder cabinet and it was a 3/4 box lined with 1/4 on the inside.

 

[Darkside]

Fire rates plywood, glue and screw two together. And if you're not in the construction industry you probably think
Fire Rated Wood-- really.

 

[ebb]

I totally get the lumber sizes and 5/4 would mill to a 1 inch board. What I am saying is that the 1 inch number sounds like something that was dreamed up by a paper pusher that has never built a cabinet before. I don't see how the 1 inch could give explosive protection without a whole bunch of specs on using stronger fasteners than the norm. Back in the day we used to use fire rated plywood all the time and it is not mentioned, however I would not want to make a good looking cabinet with that crooked stuff. My components are siting on a shelf in a closet that only has one light and no electrical outlets, since my friends fire most all ammo of any number is in an ammo box and only guns and papers are in the safe. Lets hope none of us have to find out what works and why, my friend was years getting over his fire and the electrical COOP that installed a damaged transformer that caused it all would never admit any guilt. When they came and removed the transformer they never let him get close to it and it went from the pole to the bed of the winch truck, he had to climb the side of the truck to get a picture.

 

[DogBuster]

Stable temp & humidity

58* & 20% H here

 

[ebb]

That makes as much sense as anything I've heard. I can see that they would want to get the fire crew enough time to respond.

 

[jelenko]

I totally get the lumber sizes and 5/4 would mill to a 1 inch board. What I am saying is that the 1 inch number sounds like something that was dreamed up by a paper pusher that has never built a cabinet before. I don't see how the 1 inch could give explosive protection without a whole bunch of specs on using stronger fasteners than the norm. Back in the day we used to use fire rated plywood all the time and it is not mentioned, however I would not want to make a good looking cabinet with that crooked stuff. My components are siting on a shelf in a closet that only has one light and no electrical outlets, since my friends fire most all ammo of any number is in an ammo box and only guns and papers are in the safe. Lets hope none of us have to find out what works and why, my friend was years getting over his fire and the electrical COOP that installed a damaged transformer that caused it all would never admit any guilt. When they came and removed the transformer they never let him get close to it and it went from the pole to the bed of the winch truck, he had to climb the side of the truck to get a picture.

In the regs I read, the reason for the 1" was to provide time for the fire to burn through the wood to give the fire department time to put out the fire before the fire burned through the wood to the powder.
The boxes made from the 1" wood are supposed to be UN latched to allow pressure to escape in case the powder did ignite.

ETA: Just saw JFrank's post saying essentially the same.

 

[Doom]

@JFrank and @jelenko, you are correct in the above. The 1 hr rating is to provide time before the powder combusts. It allows for evacuation in the event of a fire. If a fire is still present after one hour who cares if it burns! It is not to prevent the initial combustion of the powder. Unlike gasoline, kerosene, alcohols, and other flammable liquids which volatilize and create a combustable atmosphere and can be very dangerous when the flash points are low (<200F) nitrocellulose does not volatiles and form vapors but must be directly ignited and or exposed to a high energy source for ignition such as fire or spark or high temperature above the ignition temperature (>200F). This protection is provided by the original container. Placing the container inside a flammable enclosure is of little to no additional protection. It does add a level of increased hazard.

As for the report on the Florida incident, it only speculated as to the cause of explosion. It is important to understand why this inspection was performed. The primary purpose is to determine whether any criminal laws were broken such as bomb making, internet to commit arson or insurance fraud, or any other assorted feloneys or lessor crimes. This includes Federal, state and local laws. Since there was no indication of any then the accident was ruled as such. Actually the chain of events and evidence does not indicate that a fire resulted in the explosion but rather that the accident event was an explosion which seems to contradict the open cabinet theory.

As for fire suppression systems, they are typically design to suppress, not prevent a fire from starting and to slow/limit the spread of the fire from one area to another. In certain cases a system may be designed to extinguish a fire once started. Certain specified areas like important file rooms or electrical equipment rooms are often protected with inserting atmosphere systems. Large oil storage tanks at refineries are often cited with foam systems that will suppress a fire between the oil and the tank roof.