Yea, well call up the Seattle ATF office and argue that with them!
ITAR COMPLIANCE
- Thread starter RJ
- Start date
Alex Wheeler
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All my info comes straight from the atf. I dont care about Washington state pink slips. I am talking ITAR.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
Nothing to argue.
And, I'm telling you that the Seattle Region ATF agents when auditing me did in fact talk ITAR, etc. with, and to me.
If you want to go challenge the ATF on this, then go ahead.
I have no more dog in this fight as I did give up my FFL, so good luck playing the game.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
Sorry to hear that. Good day.
God help us all. Those who succumb and those who say the constitution is our law.
I wonder if this might be a case where they do this because they can, all the while relying on not being taken to task for exceeding their due authority by anyone so effectively coerced due to the costs involved in litigating a final outcome?
Who's responsible when the BATFE exceeds their mandate? Justice Dept.?
That'd be absurd.
Same as Hillarys ---- ? Larry
Being a retired Federal Investigator, I would agree that the BATF and the DDTC/ITAR(State Department) are separate agencies and in this case separate Departments. I can tell you form personal experience Alex's comment is completely wrong about sharing information. The enforcement of both Departments and/or Agencies is done through the US Attorney's office. We did joint (Federal Taskforce Cases)Administrative, Civil, and Criminal investigations. Ex parte orders are written every day giving one Department/Agencies access to another Department/Agencies jurisdictions. Secondly, FFL licensure is public record. I would bet DDTC/ITAR Registration is also public record. I know several 07 Manufactures who have already been requested to provide their "ITAR M-Number" to the BATF inspector. If the 07 Licensee did not have a ITAR M-Number the BATF Inspector advised them to register with the DDTC/ITAR. The BATF is now also advising to 01 FFLs to Register with the DDTC/ITAR. If you don't think the BATF is sharing information with the DDTC/ITAR you are both foolish and mistaken. When I talked with the DDTC/ITAR folks I asked if my compliance would trigger an DDTC/ITAR investigation retroactive to the issue dates of my FFLs. They assured me if I voluntarily complied I would not be responsible for earlier years of licensure. I was told the 07 FFLs who had not registered may fall into a different failure to comply with mandatory DDTC/ITAR compliance than the 01 FFLs who were put on notice July 22, 2016 Directorate. Be advised you don't have to be an FFL to have to Register with the DDTC/ITAR. I know of Stock Makers, Gun Parts Makers who were not FFL who have had to register, many of them as far back as 2006 the registration went into effect. Many Custom Gun Builders were operating with and 01 (Gunsmith License) and having the customer provide the receiver used in the build. There by the BATF consider the Gun owner the Manufacture not the Gunsmith. There is whole another aspect to this dilemma, and that is the Federal Excise Tax issue. Anyone who manufactures more than 49 firearms is responsible for the Federal Excise Tax. Taxes are a whole seperate issue, as the BATF now is under the Department of Justice, not the Department of Treasury. The Federal Excise Taxes are Regulated and Collected by the "TTB, Tax and Tariff Bureau of the Treasury Department". Tax records are by both Federal and State Laws not accessible by the BATF or State Department without and Ex parte Order, Judges Order, Federal Grand Jury Subpoena, or Search Warrant. The US Attorneys office can get the Tax returns without too much effort. Believe me they share them in joint investigations. There is a movement underway to relieve the 01 Gunsmith from the definition of manufacturing and having to pay the DDTC/ITAR $2,250.00 Per year. It has not gotten through the Congress, Senate, and President's desk yet. Most lawyers have told their Gunsmith clients to comply with the DDTC/ITAR registration. It is a given that the 07 Manufactures need to comply. The penalties are too severe not to comply. My personal thoughts are after January 2017 Hillary's goons will go on a campaign to make examples out of those who fail to comply.
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Alex Wheeler
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Nat, I wont dispute any of what you said. Its not what I have been told my my local agents. I was specifically told "the department of state has never request a list of ffls from the ATF". The ATF may ask you or recommend you register but its not their domain. Hard to get a handle on this stuff when there is no black and white. I will be visiting with a field agent tomorrow. I'll quiz him on this. In no way am I saying to not comply, I am in the process myself. I just see a lot of fear mongering and I think guys are using this to try to scare others out of the biz for their own selfish reasons....
I am heading to the nearest high bridge to jump....I am not disputing any of the above. I just feel that this will become small potatoes in the near future. The gubment needs to focus on the daily riots, shootings, politically correct wack jobs stirring the pot, etc. but that would only occur in a sane world. Alex is right too, compliance with representation would be in order. As the stomach churns 
Roeder
Silver $$ Contributor
Every single person that has an interest in this needs to write a personal, detailed letter to their congressman and both senators explaining the impact of this over reaching policy and asking them what they intend to do to fix this. Responsibility falls to John Kerry and Barack Obama, but the legislature is on notice and has the power to right this. The more pressure we put on them, the sooner we are likely to see results.
Other examples of This administration's attempted overreach such as the .223 green tip ban and the reclassification of wetted nitrocellulose were turned back almost before the word got out. The obvious difference is that those actions would have negatively impacted the large ammunition companies that also provide the government's ammunition. Big industry has no interest in the likes of small gunsmith businesses, so we are kind of on our own. We do have the support of the NRA and the NSSF, but we need to speak for ourselves.
Other examples of This administration's attempted overreach such as the .223 green tip ban and the reclassification of wetted nitrocellulose were turned back almost before the word got out. The obvious difference is that those actions would have negatively impacted the large ammunition companies that also provide the government's ammunition. Big industry has no interest in the likes of small gunsmith businesses, so we are kind of on our own. We do have the support of the NRA and the NSSF, but we need to speak for ourselves.
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shortgrass
Silver $$ Contributor
Roeder, there are bills in both the House of Representitives and the Senate concerning this (The Export Control Reform Act of 2016).
Bunch o crap !!!
This "ITAR" was meant for import/export.
I even wrote a crongress critter and went right over there head. Gave back a big speech about being pro 2nd amnd.
Nothing said bout this stuff.
Hold tuff people! Things are gonna change, for better I hope. May need a protest at the doors driving this country!!!!
This "ITAR" was meant for import/export.
I even wrote a crongress critter and went right over there head. Gave back a big speech about being pro 2nd amnd.
Nothing said bout this stuff.
Hold tuff people! Things are gonna change, for better I hope. May need a protest at the doors driving this country!!!!
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/marc-turi-libyan-rebels-hillary-clinton-229115
Nothing like having friends in high places when you want to play that Get Out of Jail FREE card....
Nothing like having friends in high places when you want to play that Get Out of Jail FREE card....
Roeder
Silver $$ Contributor
The bill you reference has been referred to committee and stands very little chance of coming to a vote. The Export reform initiative, however, is a plan within the government agencies to accomplish essentially the same thing and it's future is somewhat murky at this point. My senators seem to think that pressure to get the state department to act is the first action to take. Passing a law is just so much work, I guess.
The more the wheel squeaks, the more likely that we will get relief. Write your representatives!
You'd get more accomplished by calling and emailing the NRA everyday instead of your DGAF Senators and Representatives who will have 0 power once Hillary puts in a few Justices.
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