Is there a bushing die that doesn’t kill concentricity?

[JFrank]

Wilson offers a full length sizing die that is set up for bushings.
Ben

The Wilson type uses a bushing coupled with a decapper Rod.
So does Harrell’s Precision dies
I use both

 

[dcali]

A little late to this party, but my (several) plain old redding bushing dies introduce next to no runout. It hasn't been an issue for me.

 

[wildcat3d]

I do not have any custom rifles or shoot in any form of competition and came here to see if I could improve my reloads. I have been reloading for over 52 years and take reading the instructions and experience comments as insulting.

I followed the advice given here and bought bushing dies, neck turning tools, neck thickness gauges, primer pocket uniformers, etc. And I can tell you this, much of what benchrest shooters do will not help shooters with fat factory SAAMI chambers. And my point being with a factory chamber you have no control on how much the case neck expands. But you can control how much the neck diameter is reduced with a honed neck and how much the expander expands the neck. I did not have my Forster dies honed so I could use different brands of brass and varying neck thickness.

Below shows the difference in full length dies and how much they reduce the neck diameter. You can not control how much the neck expands when fired. But you can have the neck of the die honed if needed, and change the diameter of the expander to control bullet grip. You can also buy quality brass or use Remchester brass and skim turn the necks. Or just sort the cases with a Redding neck thickness gauge.

Bottom line, there are many reloaders here with factory rifles that do not shoot in competition and just want to make the best ammo they can. And using a bushing die involves more work, brass prep and expense and the end result can even increase neck runout. And with a standard non-bushing full length die the case body and neck are held in perfect alignment with a good die. And the real problem is neck thickness variations and how you expand the neck.

Are Your Sizing Dies Overworking Your Rifle Brass?
http://www.massreloading.com/dies_overworking_brass.html

Table 2 - Inside Diameter Measurements for 5 different sizing dies

Below a rough bushing that was scratching the case necks.

Below a bushing die that increased the runout so much the bullet is rubbing in the throat.

So do not shoot the messenger and ask the posters what type rifle they have and what type shooting they are doing. You have posters here asking questions about reloading pistols and 30-30 rifles. So don't add unnecessary comments about who is giving answers, reading the directions or who you think is unworthy of being here.

Below is the last firearm I bought, and I do not need a bushing die or even reload for it. And shooting it is a lot of fun and it didn't pay a arm or a leg for it.

P.S. Do not tell anyone I bought a cheap Chinese scope to put on it to shoot at 25 and 50 yards.

If using a good bushing die and you know what you are doing you would not have that problem! (read the instructions, because you really need the education on bushing dies)

 

[Metal God]

I use bushing dies and I’ve read the instructions. Also use Redding and Forster comp/ultra seating dies . I get as much as .005 runout , that’s the extreme but it’s there at times . Doesn’t matter what dies you use if your brass isn’t concentric .

 

[Webster]

I’ve only been handloading for two years. Always FL size .223 and 6.5cm (Lee and Forster respectively). Interested in a bushing setup to better dial in neck tension on various brass; I don’t neck turn and don’t want to. I don’t shoot BR or f-o.

Redding “s” dies and the Forster bushing bump both appear to induce significant runout from what I’ve seen online.

Are the RCBS Matchmaster dies better? I don’t have the funds for WTC and am not interested in custom dies.

As long as you don't neck turn I would think you will always have measurable run out. If you are not shooting in competition I wouldn't worry about it. Your personal shooting skills are an area of improvement as much as good loads. If your rifle doesn't shoot close to 0.500" groups with just about any load it's probably as good as your rifle is capable of. You are not going to shoot 0.250" groups no matter how hard you try. You are not going to turn a factory off the shelf rifle into a bench rest rifle. I just compete against my self to improve. My rifles are better than I am. They are for GH hunting. GH don't know what runout is.

 

[wizarc]

I use Wilson bushing dies, no problem, but I doubt there is anything wrong with the others.

 

[INTJ]

This topic is always interesting when it comes up. When we first start reloading, we have issues with concentricity. As we gain more experience we fix that and find we don't even use a concentricity gauge anymore. I haven't checked concentricity in years.

I do sort my cases so there is no more than .0015" of variance in neck wall thickness. I only neck turn for BR. I also FL size all my cases, bumping the shoulder .002-.003". I use both bushing and non-bushing sizing dies, and both 7/8-14 and straight line seaters.

Somewhere in the preceding paragraph must be the magic that eliminates concentricity issues. Or is it something else I am doing that I am unaware of?

 

[nakneker]

I haven’t read through this thread completely so I don’t know if anyone has mentioned the SAC bushings but I’m seeing some interesting videos comparing them to other bushing. I’ll post one below, kind of long but his results are worth considering. I’ve pretty much moved over to setting next tension with mandrels but I thought I’d post this in case anyone is interested in comparing bushings.