Quick help choosing dies.

[Sraw]

I’ve been doing a lot of research about which dies to get. I’m not looking for benchrest accuracy but I would like to use this rifle to play around in f class.

Between Redding’s type s, competition, and master hunter and forster’s Benchrest and ultra, and then all the others... it’s kind of confusing. Before now I have just used lee dies. I don’t plan on neck sizing, just full length sizing and bumping the shoulder back.

I’ve also never used a bushing die so am not sure if I need that or not. I’m not sure if I should get a bushing fl sizing die like the Redding or the neck die from Forster.

These are what I’ve just about settled on. Please let me know if I’d be better served with something else.

https://www.brownells.com/reloading...or-bench-rest-full-length-die-prod109543.aspx

Or

https://www.brownells.com/reloading...-dies/type-s-bushing-full-dies-prod38734.aspx

Do either of these come with the small flash hole pin?

And from those who’ve tried both the Forster seater seems to be highly recommended.

https://www.brownells.com/reloading...r-ultra-micrometer-seater-die-prod109546.aspx

Thanks

 

[MikeMcCasland]

It sounds like you aren't neck turning, so if that's the case and it were me, I'd do the following:

Get a dedicated decapping die (Lee decapper comes to mind).
Get bushing FL die of some sort; doesn't really matter which one. Make sure to remove the expander/stem.
Get a bushing that's ~.003 smaller than your loaded neck diameter.
Get a Sinclair, K&M, or 21st century expander die/mandrel.

Then do the following:
Decap on dedicated decapper.
Resize/bump shoulders on expanderless FL bushing die, slightly over re-sizing necks to ensure the mandrel touches all brass.
Run them through the mandrel die to expand/push neck inconsistencies to the outside.

You'll end up with perfect .001-.002 neck tension, with minimal runout this way.

I'm sure smarter guys will come along and tell you how to do it, but if you want a quick suggestion....here you go.

 

[Ringostar]

You didn’t mention which cartridge your using. I would look into Whidden dies. Their full length bushing dies are very good, and aren’t any higher priced than Redding S dies.

 

[marchboom]

Either of the dies you mentioned are great. My first choice would be the Forster because I like that the expander ball is located higher on the stem. I also full length size my cases vs. neck size. Way too many top shooters have gone back to FL sizing and they get excellent accuracy. I get <.001 runout with my Forster FL Benchrest dies in .223 and 22-250 (without neck turning). I also use the Forster Ultra micrometer seating die. Very precise and the numbers are much larger than the Redding. If Forster does not make a die in the caliber I need then I go with Redding.

This is my opinion and you will undoubtedly here other points of view.

 

[Barlow]

Forster full length sizing die and their mic bullet seater. You can send it in later to have the neck honed if desired. jmo Barlow

 

[Sraw]

It sounds like you aren't neck turning, so if that's the case and it were me, I'd do the following:

Get a dedicated decapping die (Lee decapper comes to mind).
Get bushing FL die of some sort; doesn't really matter which one. Make sure to remove the expander/stem.
Get a bushing that's ~.003 smaller than your loaded neck diameter.
Get a Sinclair, K&M, or 21st century expander die/mandrel.

Then do the following:
Decap on dedicated decapper.
Resize/bump shoulders on expanderless FL bushing die, slightly over re-sizing necks to ensure the mandrel touches all brass.
Run them through the mandrel die to expand/push neck inconsistencies to the outside.

You'll end up with perfect .001-.002 neck tension, with minimal runout this way.

I'm sure smarter guys will come along and tell you how to do it, but if you want a quick suggestion....here you go.

Interesting, I haven’t heard of it being done that way. What is the reason for removing the stem and making two extra steps out of that? I’m guessing it just produces more consistency?

 

[Sraw]

https://www.forsterproducts.com/pro...ing/bushing-bump-neck-bench-rest-sizing-dies/

Is something like this what I should use from Forster instead of the full length Sizer?

 

[dkhunt14]

A full length die without bushing almost always makes straighter ammo. Running a mandrel in after sizing makes bullet tensions the same and doesn't make rounds crooked. Matt

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Interesting, I haven’t heard of it being done that way. What is the reason for removing the stem and making two extra steps out of that? I’m guessing it just produces more consistency?

A good portion of stems out there aren't in perfect alignment; that doesn't really matter for the decapping operation, but once you pull the expander back through the case neck, it can pull it off center (i.e. introducing runout).

Using the mandrel, you're pushing down (the case is inherently more resistant to being moved off center with down-force), and you're pushing all the high spots in the neck to the outer diameter of the case, which means your bullets are squeezed into the necks uniformly.

In theory, this operation will get you ultra consistent neck tension, while also producing concentric rounds. How much more consistent/concentric depends on your existing setup.

 

[Peebles24]

OP how far do you want to shoot? Fclass goes out to 1k. Reload accuracy really matters at 1k, welcome to the rabbit hole

 

[Falfan2017]

A good portion of stems out there aren't in perfect alignment; that doesn't really matter for the decapping operation, but once you pull the expander back through the case neck, it can pull it off center (i.e. introducing runout).

Using the mandrel, you're pushing down (the case is inherently more resistant to being moved off center with down-force), and you're pushing all the high spots in the neck to the outer diameter of the case, which means your bullets are squeezed into the necks uniformly.

In theory, this operation will get you ultra consistent neck tension, while also producing concentric rounds. How much more consistent/concentric depends on your existing setup.

What's the benefit of decapping seperately if you're not using the expander ball in the die?

 

[Uncle Ed]

Many reloaders use a universal depriming die and then tumble and clean the cases before sizing.

In some dies you can raise the expander like a Forster die and let it float. The problem with raising the expander like this is it will no longer remove the primer.

Below a Redding die with a modified Forster expander and spindle assembly. This allow the primer to be removed during resizing if you tumbled the cases with the primer in the case.

Installing the Forster expander greatly reduced case neck runout and you are not dragging Redding long expander through the neck.

 

[Sraw]

A good portion of stems out there aren't in perfect alignment; that doesn't really matter for the decapping operation, but once you pull the expander back through the case neck, it can pull it off center (i.e. introducing runout).

Using the mandrel, you're pushing down (the case is inherently more resistant to being moved off center with down-force), and you're pushing all the high spots in the neck to the outer diameter of the case, which means your bullets are squeezed into the necks uniformly.

In theory, this operation will get you ultra consistent neck tension, while also producing concentric rounds. How much more consistent/concentric depends on your existing setup.

Could you post a link of a mandrel that is the same quality as the Forster dies?

So let me make sure I understand you correctly. I would first run through a universal decapping die, then a full length sizing die (w/o the pin), Then the mandrel die, and lastly the bullet seating die?

And this method gets more consistent results than a bushing die?

Are there different size mandrels like bushings?

 

[MikeMcCasland]

What's the benefit of decapping seperately if you're not using the expander ball in the die?

Probably isn't too much of one. They're significantly more stout than the decapping pins I've seen on standard dies. That said, for the type of reloading most folks are doing here, there is no advantage.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

No neck dies

 

[Richard Coody]

Could you post a link of a mandrel that is the same quality as the Forster dies?

So let me make sure I understand you correctly. I would first run through a universal decapping die, then a full length sizing die (w/o the pin), Then the mandrel die, and lastly the bullet seating die?

And this method gets more consistent results than a bushing die?

Are there different size mandrels like bushings?

http://kmshooting.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=mandrel+kit

but i would start with a forster full length sizing die and after using it a while have it honed.

whidden makes an expander ball kit to go with his full.length sizing die where you can easily play with different neck tension. he will also hone his dies.

 

[JFrank]

Wilson makes full bushing die that are extremely good quality, you can and I recommend removing the expander ball first thing leaving the de capper intact.
just saying

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Could you post a link of a mandrel that is the same quality as the Forster dies?

So let me make sure I understand you correctly. I would first run through a universal decapping die, then a full length sizing die (w/o the pin), Then the mandrel die, and lastly the bullet seating die?

And this method gets more consistent results than a bushing die?

Are there different size mandrels like bushings?

In theory, with unturned brass, yes it does get you more consistent neck tension and concentricity than any FL or bushing FL die with an expander ball. In practice however, it depends. If there wasn't a problem with consistent neck tension or concentricty to begin with, then there isn't anything to "fix".

Regarding varying mandrel thicknesses, I'm only personally familiar with the Sinclair die, but they all work using the same principal. Sinclair sells an "expander" mandrel, which is .001 smaller than the bullet diameter; they also sell a neck turning mandrel, which is .002 smaller than the bullet diameter. It doesn't appear that Sinclair sells any other sizes, but who wants to run more than .002 of neck tension? They sell a stainless and carbide version of each.

Sinclair Expander Die: https://www.sinclairintl.com/reload...ls/generation-ii-expander-dies-prod38807.aspx

Sinclair Expanders: https://www.sinclairintl.com/reload...turning-expander-mandrels/index.htm?rrec=true

 

[Delfuego]

Forster full length sizing die and their mic bullet seater. You can send it in later to have the neck honed if desired. jmo Barlow

"For The Win" as the kids say.

Forster also has small decapping pins that can be used. Make sure the FL die is not too long, that last one had to be cut down when they honed the neck.

 

[Uncle Ed]

I prefer my Forster full length benchrest dies, and as long as you lube the inside of the neck there is no advantage to using a expander die. And I have done neck runout tests doing it both ways and saw no improvement with using a Sinclair expander die.