Is annealing o.k. after f/l sizing?

[mills braswell]

A question from a novice hand loader for the 225 Win.. I'm wanting to try the old time way of annealing in dim light and holding the case by hand and turning it into the flame, then dropping it in water. My issue is that I have brass 1x, 2x, and 3x fired, but it has all been resized and trimmed, chamfered, ready to prime and load. The question is will it be o.k. to anneal it now before loading, or should I wait until firing it and anneal it before processing it again? My concern is will any inconsistent heating on my attempt at annealing cause the necks/shoulder area to warp out of concentricity, which resizing would surely fix if it was annealed before hand. But then again, it may not be an issue, and may help my groups, especially with the 3x fired brass. Is annealing after sizing a no-no? Or should I go for it because it wouldn't do any harm?

 

[Straightshooter1]

A question from a novice hand loader for the 225 Win.. I'm wanting to try the old time way of annealing in dim light and holding the case by hand and turning it into the flame, then dropping it in water. My issue is that I have brass 1x, 2x, and 3x fired, but it has all been resized and trimmed, chamfered, ready to prime and load. The question is will it be o.k. to anneal it now before loading, or should I wait until firing it and anneal it before processing it again? My concern is will any inconsistent heating on my attempt at annealing cause the necks/shoulder area to warp out of concentricity, which resizing would surely fix if it was annealed before hand. But then again, it may not be an issue, and may help my groups, especially with the 3x fired brass. Is annealing after sizing a no-no? Or should I go for it because it wouldn't do any harm?

Frankly, though it's not likely to do any harm, I don't see any good reason to at this point and I'd just fire them and then follow annealing procedures. If you choose to go ahead and anneal them, you'll want to be aware that the annealing will leave a residue burnt on the surfaces of the case neck where you'll need to lube the inside of the neck prior to seating the bullets.

Note too that dropping your freshly annealed cases in water really does nothing for the annealing process except to add extra work/time in the process. Though I guess you could say that it shortens the cool down time, but then you have the time for drying them out. It's a waist of effort, IMHO.

 

[mills braswell]

Frankly, though it's not likely to do any harm, I don't see any good reason to at this point and I'd just fire them and then follow annealing procedures. If you choose to go ahead and anneal them, you'll want to be aware that the annealing will leave a residue burnt on the surfaces of the case neck where you'll need to lube the inside of the neck prior to seating the bullets.

Note too that dropping your freshly annealed cases in water really do nothing for the annealing process except to add extra work/time in the process. Though I guess you could say that it shortens the cool down time, but then you have the time for drying them out. It's a waisted effort, IMHO.

Thanks for the input. I'll wait until firing.

 

[LoanHarvey]

I agree with Straightshooter, anneal after firing and prior to FL sizing is the key. Doing anything else is pointless. (Unless you just want to practice with them) Whether you anneal after FL sizing or not, you will likely have different neck grip/pressure compared to annealing properly which will likely change your POI/group size. If you plan making decisions on your load with the condition of this brass, I would not put much weight on these, until annealed prior to FL sizing. If you decide to scrap the socket and flame method, let me know if you need an AMP Aztek annealing service, I have one.

 

[jr600yd]

Yeah, forget dropping the brass in water it does nothing but make it wet. Drop them on a wet/damp towel. That way you won’t burn your loading bench.

 

[mills braswell]

I agree with Straightshooter, anneal after firing and prior to FL sizing is the key. Doing anything else is pointless. (Unless you just want to practice with them) Whether you anneal after FL sizing or not, you will likely have different neck grip/pressure compared to annealing properly which will likely change your POI/group size. If you plan making decisions on your load with the condition of this brass, I would not put much weight on these, until annealed prior to FL sizing. If you decide to scrap the socket and flame method, let me know if you need an AMP Aztek annealing service, I have one.

I may be interested in your service one day, as of now, most all of my fired brass has been processed. I did this waiting for some VV N140 to become available, as I have been using IMR4064 with fair results. I do have some IMR4320 I could use and experiment with. How important would it be to anneal new unfired brass before processing, or is it unnecessary until after it's 1st firing? Could annealing new brass help cut out fliers, or are those more likely an issue with neck wall thickness variables, and those pieces of brass need to be identified, and culled for foulers to load?

 

[mills braswell]

Yeah, forget dropping the brass in water it does nothing but make it wet. Drop them on a wet/damp towel. That way you won’t burn your loading bench.

Thanks, I have heard of people saying a need to quench, but most say it's not needed. Getting them wet to wash the lube off and drying them is my least favorite part of the job, and I won't do it twice if it's not necessary.

 

[rijndael]

Annealing new brass is not needed, it doesn't come work hardened.

 

[CF2209]

Could anneal and put back through the die if you want to save on components.

 

[Straightshooter1]

How important would it be to anneal new unfired brass before processing, or is it unnecessary until after it's 1st firing?

For the most part, I'd say it's not "important" for new brass, but . . . that also can depend on just who's new brass you're talking about. The "important" thing for new brass is to get them fire formed. If new brass is not already annealed, then one may need to fire them more than once or twice to get them formed. So, in some cases, annealing could help get this done a little sooner.

Could annealing new brass help cut out fliers, or are those more likely an issue with neck wall thickness variables, and those pieces of brass need to be identified, and culled for foulers to load?

Again, I'd say it depends on whose brass you're dealing with where there may be substantial variation in the case's neck wall thickness. You're only talking about the first firing anyway, where you'll be annealing after that. The "important" thing is to get them fire formed so you can then better determine what other measures you might want to take to improve precision.

 

[DocBII]

Mills,

I anneal my new brass, had way too many lots come either extremely hard or very inconsistent with the test batch. You may wish to remove the scale from the inside of the neck with 4-0 steel wool after annealing.

HTH,
DocBII

 

[mills braswell]

Thanks everyone for the valuable input. It does help on my decision making.

This is a great forum; great people on it.

 

[Longtrain]

One of the benefits of annealing is very accurate sizing, you lose the spring back of multi-fired cases. When you set your dies to bump .001 for a batch of annealed cases you get .001.
If you size before annealing, you lose this big benefit, plus you‘re work hardening your cases, against the reasons for annealing.

 

[338 dude]

I may be interested in your service one day, as of now, most all of my fired brass has been processed. I did this waiting for some VV N140 to become available, as I have been using IMR4064 with fair results. I do have some IMR4320 I could use and experiment with. How important would it be to anneal new unfired brass before processing, or is it unnecessary until after it's 1st firing? Could annealing new brass help cut out fliers, or are those more likely an issue with neck wall thickness variables, and those pieces of brass need to be identified, and culled for foulers to load?

No need to anneal new brass it is annealed several times during the manufacturing process as far as my processes I clean and D prime first anneal second size after that I would not trust heating and cooling metal to be true you know as you heat metal it expands when it cools it contracts I would not trust it to be as good as coming out of my dies

 

[Tommie]

Happy to see someone keeping a great (and under-appreciated) cartridge alive!

 

[1shot]

Frankly, though it's not likely to do any harm, I don't see any good reason to at this point and I'd just fire them and then follow annealing procedures. If you choose to go ahead and anneal them, you'll want to be aware that the annealing will leave a residue burnt on the surfaces of the case neck where you'll need to lube the inside of the neck prior to seating the bullets.

Note too that dropping your freshly annealed cases in water really does nothing for the annealing process except to add extra work/time in the process. Though I guess you could say that it shortens the cool down time, but then you have the time for drying them out. It's a waist of effort, IMHO.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ That.

 

[JASmith]

One should routinely size AFTER annealing. Yes, one can size before, but regardless of what happens before, a sizing step after annealing is recommended.

Sizing homogenizes neck tension by introducing some work hardening. The hardening curve is steepest early on and levels off. The result is work-hardened brass has a more consistent yield strength than freshly annealed material.

 

[Aeon]

A question from a novice hand loader for the 225 Win.. I'm wanting to try the old time way of annealing in dim light and holding the case by hand and turning it into the flame, then dropping it in water. My issue is that I have brass 1x, 2x, and 3x fired, but it has all been resized and trimmed, chamfered, ready to prime and load. The question is will it be o.k. to anneal it now before loading, or should I wait until firing it and anneal it before processing it again? My concern is will any inconsistent heating on my attempt at annealing cause the necks/shoulder area to warp out of concentricity, which resizing would surely fix if it was annealed before hand. But then again, it may not be an issue, and may help my groups, especially with the 3x fired brass. Is annealing after sizing a no-no? Or should I go for it because it wouldn't do any harm?

 

[Mike Lum]

As other posters have noted its ideal to size after annealing, you will get much less "bounce back" thus increased consistency.
In addition if you are trimming, neck turning (1x only procedure) or anything of the sort consider annealing pior to save wear on the blades and equipment with a softer brass.

 

[1raggedhole]

Last year I bought an annealeze. Really nice machine. I already had 600 rounds 204 Ruger that had been resized and never annealed after approx 5-6 firings. I also had 800 rounds with same number of firings, but not yet resized. I annealed all of them at the same time. So 600 were sized before, and 800 after. I loaded both and shot comparison groups. There was absolutely no difference.