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Is 30-06 obsolete or less accurate than .308? Why?

Laurie, great post, I really enjoyed reading it. Congratulations on the fine finish in the F-Class match as well; I'm sure Gary would love to hear about it.

You should petition to have .303 included in F-TR over there, it might create a sudden increase in participation as people drag out the old rifles.
 
Every now and then there is a wave of nostalgia and someone asks why the DCRA shooters can`t use the .303 British cartridge in TR or F/TR. It was the Canadian infantry cartridge in WWI, WWII and Korea so the question does arise.

There are a number of responses, take your pick:

1) Any No. 4 SMLE worth shooting has long since been rebarreled to .308 and the original .303 barrel converted to a tire iron.

2) Not enough brass and competition bullets available.

3) Can`t hold a candle to the modern bolt action competition rifles.

4) Why in God`s name would you want to shoot that horrible thing?

But there are activities in the Ontario Rifle Association where SMLEs are used. Both are short range 100 yd shooting. Museum where you have to wear a uniform that matches the period of the military rifle you are using. They have night manoeuvers on Army bases and go crashing around in the dark having a great old time. Vintage which uses older hunting firearms such as the 94 Win or older military rifles and is more of a static exercise.
 
.303 is still listed as an eligible cartridge for UK 'Target Rifle' by our NRA (or it was a year or two back, although maybe things have changed now that ICFRA doesn't quote any metric military calibres any more, so that 7.62mm has become .308 Winchester and 5.56mm .223 Remington.) So in theory you could use a custom-built single-shot .303 TR rifle in the 'Imperial Meeting' at Bisley. The Catch-22 is that it's shot using issued factory ammunition, and the NRA doesn't obtain any of same. I was going to say nobody makes match quality .303" ammo any more, but that's incorrect as HPS-Target Rifle loads TargetMaster 0.303" and Kynamco Ltd also planned to produce its equivalent the last time I looked at its website, both using the 174gn SMK.

Historic Arms shooting is big in the UK and culminates in the annual 'Trafalgar Meeting' at Bisley each October, hence the demand for good factory ammunition. The Trafalgar includes several long-range matches up to I think 800yd, maybe even further. There are matches purely for Lee-Enfields in this and other Historic Arms meets, including some for the 'modern' versions with heavy 7.62mm barrels, and sniper variants.

If you get a good .303, it can be very rewarding to shoot with handloads, but the P'14 and the straight-pull Canadian Ross usually outshoot the Lees as do the better Mauser rifles like the 6.5 Swedes and 7mm Boers, also the 7.5X55mm Swiss jobs - hence the reason for L-E only matches. Getting a 'good' .303 is becoming problematical too as supplies of replacement barrels ran out years ago. Very few people if any know how to 'regulate' an SMLE's or No.4's bedding any more as was the practice pre-1968 when Service Rifle was the primary prone rifle discipline.

I would imagine that we'll follow US practice eventually on barrels, as with your commercial barrelmakers producing same-profile barrels for M14s and M1s if there is enough demand and the rules are changed to allow the practice.

I used to be very keen on all this stuff, but give me an F-Class rifle and little targets any time, especially as I see two backsight leaves one above the other, and can focus on the foresight blade OR the target, but not both together when I handle a military rifle now! Young men's sights!

Laurie,
York, England
 
Having had enough reading I chose to go out and do something about it...
4 guys and 4 different rifles...7mm08 Remington Heavy Varminter, .308 heavy barrel, 30-06 hunting rifle and my custom Savage model 112 VB SS 26 " cal 30-0630-06
Range 1,000 yds target 30 "steel gong....after every rifle had its say we went to the target , counted the hits and repainted the target for the next guy.
ALL , count 'em , all 4 rifles hit the target 70% of the time ( SHOOTERS ERROR) 7MM-08 loaded with 162 A Max H414 powder, .308 loaded with 162 AMAX powder IMR 4895, 30-06 hunt 162 AMAX IMR 4850, Savage 30-06 162 AMAX , H414 powder

The only thing OBSOLETE is COMMON SENSE on part of the reader/shooters who do not go out and DO IT....all 3 calibers can kill a MOOSE at 200 yds...NUFF SAID
 
I mostly lurk around here but just wanted to chime in and say that I have owned several 30-06 rifles for hunting over the years and none have evr let me down.I recently started a tactical rifle project and my donor action was my fathers old Rem 700 30-06. I decided as a tip of the hat to my late father it would be 30-06. After reading German's article I decided the Serengeti reamer was what I wanted to chamber the #17 Krieger. There was some pressure to go with the 308 but I did convince my smith, through referencing German's article, that the old '06 was worthy.
 
Some years ago I had the honor of shooting a Cloward built .30-06 (borrowed) in competition. It was one heck of a rifle!

For my own rifle, I stuck with the .308, but have a nagging desire for a .30-06 long-range target rifle... I hunt with one and am rightly satisfied with it, but a match rifle in .30-06 would really be something...
 
This thread is too good to let it die. Besides, It made me get to work on an article I've been pecking at for a while, comparing the .308 and the .30-06 in match rifles. I threw in the 6XC also and it's all done now.

You can read it here if you'd like http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2011/04/cartridges-sibling-rivalry-308-vs-30-06.html
 
Thanks Tony, it was a good bit of work to compile the data, but I think that direct comparison is something that hasn't been done in many years and was worth the effort.
 
great article and pictures..... and i see you are in your right mind.... there are only a few of us left....
someday i may have the priviledge of owning a left handed rifle.....ok probably won't happen, because i'm rather white of beard and long of tooth.....
interesting to think about how many cartridges have the parent of the (not ever going to be obsolete)
venerable 30-06..... I got a sour taste in my mouth for a period of time from the Elmer Keith trying to out write Jack in the gun tabloids, but soon learned to let the two winds blow themselves out.......yeah i like 270's also....
 
German, I have to agree with previous posts... that's a great article!

Too bad all the rifles you have pictured are wrong-handed! :)

Walt
 
queen_stick said:
German, I have to agree with previous posts... that's a great article!

Too bad all the rifles you have pictured are wrong-handed! :)

Walt

I think that is worth exploring, Walt. I wish I could dope the wind as well as a couple of lefties I shoot with.
 
German, that is truly a fine piece of research!

The historical background's an entertaining addition as well.

(Next time I see Mid I'll have to kid him about killing off the .30-06!)
 
Coyote, Walt, Tony, Steve - thanks, and I'm glad you enjoyed it. I don't think it'll change anyone's mind, but we're all here to have some fun, so that's OK.

Outdoorsman - Jackie is building a .30-06 on a Remington 721!
 
German,
I always enjoy reading your writing. I don't know where you find the time to do it between working and shooting. But I'm glad you do.
It seem's there's always another prodject. I - WILL - finish a 30-06 rifle I've been working on this summer. I'm building a copy of a 1903 Springfield Marine sniper.
I have all the parts and thier all Springfield manufacture with the exception of the stock which is a curent issue CMP. I don't want to build a "fake" so it has the CMP cartouch stamped plainly on the stock.
Also the Untertl scope is a 16X and is among one of the last ones Mr. Parsons went through before he passed.
I'll get pics up here and on other sites when I get it done.


I'm starting to back out of the German Automotive repair business and letting my son move more into the forefront. I think for the next financial stage of my life I'll build,buy and sell rifles. The local BATF phone # is on my list of people to call soon to talk about what licences I need to do this.
I'm starting to think of building a left handed 30-06 tube gun :-)

Craig
 
Craig, thanks and I'm glad you enjoyed it. If you're in the market for a good left-hand match rifle, drop me a line, I have a few for sale. I'm trying to reduce my "inventory" to a sane level.
 
Hahahaha,
What's a "sane" level of rifles to own? 65+ ??
You have the email address for the shop right? If not PM me and I'll give it to you.

Craig
 

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