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Is 30-06 obsolete or less accurate than .308? Why?

Tozguy, I like your post! :D But don't forget there is also a scaled up .30-06 - the .50 BMG. John Browning did a perfect scale-up of the '06 to create the .50 when he designed the M2 machine gun. After all, when you're looking at perfection, there's nothing left to do but make it bigger! ;D
 
................ or smaller German, since many people reckon the .222 Rem is a scaled down .30-06, and it certainly works too. I assume that is what Tozguy is referring to tongue in cheek, although he's one step in the process out by using the .223R variant as the example.

It's interesting to read these Wolfe Publishing reprints of old magazine articles stuck together in combined paperback volumes. In the one on Varmint rifles and cartridges, it's fascinating now to read these pieces by the gunwriting 'experts' of the 1960s, early 70s all predicting the newfangled and 'inferior' .223R will never catch on with civilian, especially varmint, shooters, since it's trying to compete with the great .222 - a case of letting sentiment override logic which we all do on occasions.

Certainly, in my days of shooting the .223, one reason I liked the cartridge was that it is so similar to a mini '06.

Laurie,
York, England
 
Laurie, I hadn't thought of the .222 as a scaled-down .30-06 before, but I think you're right about that. Still, those little cartridges are like pesky flies swarming about! If only they didn't win so darn much, I could be more critical of them! LOL..

In a few weeks we have the Arizona Mid-Range State Championship: 600, 500 and 300 yards. I'm going to stick with my 190 load for 600 and 500 but will try the Berger 155.5 at 300 with a mild load, something around 2750 fps or so. Next weekend I'll try a few loads in that range and see what looks good. I'm taking this weekend off shooting, a rare ocassion!
 
I had the chance to shoot German's 30-06 a few years ago. He said try it at 600 yards. Soooo, to the pits he and his friends went to pull my target. I should have known something was amis since I only shot a 223 space gun.
When I opened the ammo box the rounds looked like 50 cal!
They were 240 grainers. My first shot hit the ten ring. From then on it was like playing bingo. I could hear the laughter coming from the pits.
Ben Adams
Vero Beach Fl.
 
One more thing I like about the 06. It's really the only caliber I've hunted with for the last 50 odd years. Like my Daddy said "if it walks on two or four legs you can kill it with the 06" True, it may not be the "go to" caliber for big brown bears or prarrie dogs but you can use it!

Good shooting, Jim
 
The 222 might have been the first attempt at shrinking the 30-06 but it spun off into a 222 magnum and then into relative obscurity.
Today the 223 is the closest reflection of the 30-06 not only by virtue of the availability and diversity of ammo but by the shadow on the wall test also. Hold a 30-06 round between a light and the wall so its shadow projects at 90 degrees to the wall. Outline the silouette with a permanent marker if you are single or with an eraseable pencil if you are married. Then hold a 223 round in the same manner but a bit closer to the light until the shadow superimposes the outline on the wall...it fits perfect!

;)
 
New in 2009, CZ 550 EXCLUSIVE model available only in 30-06. Beautifull !
Another sign that the 30-06 is still alive and well.
 
Very nice rifle! Thanks for the news, here's a link I found http://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/81-centerfire-rifles-cz/KM.aspx

I don't see a lefty version though :'( We always get forgotten...

I'm shooting a 500 yd. match with the 40XL this weekend. I'll be using a light load that I'm developing for 300 yards, but we don't have a 300 yd. match to try it in! Berger 155.5 and 4895. Should be fun.
 
German,
I can feel the excitement, hope you shoot the match with a big smile.
In any event you are doing the 30-06 proud.
Catch you later
 
With German's win at the Berger SW Nationals 600yd match. The 30-06 has taken all chalangers and pervailed in tough conditions.
 
Mike, that match was a lot of fun, especially because of using the .30-06 to win against all the 6.5-284, 6XC, etc. that were being fired. Any win with 62 shooters and tough wind is a satisfying one and this one was definitely all of that. While a 592-27X is far from that rifle's best score, it was enough to win under those conditions!

I went back to Ben Avery on Saturday after our target building session at Phoenix Rod & Gun and managed to shoot the two 600 yard stages of the XC match (Berger Bullets SW Nationals) there were 79 shooters there. The wind wasn't as bad as Thursday but it was still challenging. I shot a 197-8X (1st HM) and a 198-13X (2nd HM) with the .30-06, this time with the Sierra 200 instead of the 190 I shot on Thursday. On the 198-13, the first shot was a 10 and the total for the first 10 was 100-9X, I was clicking left on every shot for the first four or five and then clicking right even more on each shot for the next five or six as it let off. The whole string went that way. Those 200 Sierras really shot well, I was very happy with the load (53.5 H4350, moly Sierra 200, Russian primer, Winchester brass).

We're posting match results for the SW Nationals at www.proneshooting.blogspot.com for the moment and once everything is complete they'll be archived at www.desertsharpshooters.com
 
German,

just to say "Very well done" and with just a little bit of help too from the 'obsolete '06'! Looking back through the Proneshooting blog posts you provided the link for, it's also very gratifying for an Eliseo B1 owning Brit to see so many tube guns in use, not to mention their frequent appearance on daily bulletin stories.

My Eliseo is a very rare beast on this side of the Atlantic, and unfortunately not likely to become more common unless the US State Department export licence requirements and charges become less onerous. A shame as it's such a good design ...... not that I need say that to you!

Anyway, keep up the good work.

Laurie,
York, England
 
Thank you, Laurie, I appreciate the kind words.

The tubegun is becoming hugely popular around here. Of course there is a large base of older, traditionally stocked rifles and they won't suddenly disappear, but almost every new rifle that I'm aware of being built in the past few years is a tubegun. Apart from the great ergonomics and ease of installation, there is the simple question of availability as all the traditional stock makers have such a huge backlog of work that it takes years (quite literally) to get a stock from them.

You have a real gem with your B1, don't let someone talk you out of it!
 
For anything other than benchrest, small groups and high scores are created by great shooters and great gunsmiths. Great shooters and great smiths can make almost any cartridge accruate.

I have one of Gary's tubeguns stocks and it is great. However, I also ordered a stock from Steve McGee, and the delivery was a month, not years. Steve is also a great guy to work with. Don't short-change a good wood stock.
 
Matt, that's good to hear. I am over two years into waiting for a stock from another stock maker and several friends are in the same boat. One just got his rifle back after a wait slightly longer than mine. The sad part is, I don't want it anymore, all I want to shoot is the tubegun.

Anyone in the market for a really good BAT 6XC prone rifle should contact me.
 
If a long action over-the-counter target rifle was available I would be shooting the .30-06 in F Class. Great cartridge.

Having said that I just came across an interesting reference to the .30-06 in Lt. Col. (ret) Earl Naramore`s book "Principles and Practise of Loading Ammunition". He was Chief Proof Officer and Exec Officer at the Erie Proving Grounds.

He states that the .30-06 was developed before WWI without regard to the suitability of existing powders. The U.S. Army realized after adopting the cartridge that they had to pour millions of dollars into propellant research to achieve decent ballistics. Took to WWII to achieve this.

Along the way, the Army contemplated replacing the .30-06 with a 7mm round developed by John D. Pederson. This turned out to be a dead end so the Army stuck with the .30-06. Thank goodness they did.

The Army was having the same problem with the .50 BMG round with the same solution. As usually happens the commercial market benefits from military research and we are now enjoying a wide selection of powders that started with that drive 90 years ago to develop suitable propellants for the .30-06 and .50 BMG.
 
Naramore's book is a great reference, I'll have to look for that passage; do you have a page number handy?

Over the counter long-action target rifles are pretty scarce indeed, that's why I did the 40XL project that's a gun of the week on this site. I was shooting it Saturday, testing some light loads for 300 yards, it's a nice rifle. I have another .30-06 on a short action and it's fine, don't let the lack of a long action hold you back!
 
German. Great stuff. No reason a .30-06 couldn`t be built on a short action for F Class. They are single loaded anyway. And the short action would be stiffer than a long action.

Page 495 in Naramore`s book, bottom of page.

Bill
 
Along the way, the Army contemplated replacing the .30-06 with a 7mm round developed by John D. Pederson. This turned out to be a dead end so the Army stuck with the .30-06. Thank goodness they did.

I've a feeling that, just as with the British War Office in 1912-13, your new cartridge project started as a .270 and grew to 7mm. The .276" British (7mm as Brit practice was to quote bore dia back then not bullet dia in naming cartridges) is a fascinating story and an object lesson in the dangers of becoming obsessed with ballistics to the detriment of everything else. After the South African war of 1898-1902, our War Office decided the Lee action rifle and 0.303" were inadequate and wanted a 7mm Mauser like what the Boers had used. Only they wanted it more accurate with higher velocities and ended up with the Pattern '13 that fired a really hot seven based on the .280 Ross. It used 50 odd grains weight of a really 'hot' blend of double-base cordite, wore barrels out in a few hundred rounds, produced terrible muzzle flash and blast, and recoiled badly. Worst of all, the barrel got so hot in rapid fire it charred the handguard and caused cook-offs with a round chambered but not fired after a rapid string - really safe occurrence one imagines.

The troops hated the Mauser system rifle compared to their SMLEs too - long, heavy, long bolt throw and six-round internal magazine. But ........... the British Army was going to have it, whatever the actual users thought about it, and it was only the outbreak of WW1 that killed the great British 7mm project off!

We also looked at the .276 Pederson after WW1 and Vickers made a licensed copy of the Pederson self-loading rifle. If you guys had adopted it, we probably would have too instead of developing the SMLE into the Number 4 Rifle. I've a feeling that what killed the Pederson round off was the rifle needing the cartridges to be greased for case extraction without tearing the extractor rims off. (A delayed blow-back like the later CETME / H&K design that used a fluted chamber to get round this problem.)

Anyway going back to the .276" calibre P'13, you guys know the rifle best as the .30-06 M1917 Enfield of course south of the 49th parallel, or the 0.303" P'14 north of it, this being what the Pattern 13 morphed into. The UK Pattern Room collection has some superb examples of the 7mm prototypes and troops trials rifles (as well as mouth-watering hand-built 'exhibition quality' Springfield '03s including an original .30-03 model stocked up to the muzzle).

The difference between us and you is that the .30-06 is still viable as a hunting and target round while the 0.303" is a historics arms shooting proposition only now over here. You occasionally see old Winchester soft-point 180gn ammo, but technically it's illegal on deer in Scotland as it fails to make a minimum 2,500 fps MV requirement. It's deer-legal in England and Wales, but there can only be a handful of deerstalkers who still use it now. Nearly all the rifles are based on military actions too, mostly SMLE or the later Number 4, so they're pretty rough and ready compared to modern rifles. The best examples are some really nice single-shot Martinis and well remodelled P'14s with the sight-protecting ears ground off.

Maybe we should have gone for the seven!

Laurie,
York, England

PS German, came 3rd in the F/TR division of the GB F-Class Association's 1st national League Round of the year over the weekend with the Eliseo B1, my best result to date. I must email Gary E and tell him as well as congratulate him on his California Palma result.
 

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