Is 30-06 obsolete or less accurate than .308? Why?
Is 30-06 obsolete or less accurate than .308? Why?
- Thread starter mparsons911
- Start date
I'll limit my comments to Highpower shooting, and to some extent to prone Highpower; in those applications, I still find the .30-06 superior to the .308 in every way. It's more accurate, better ballistics, better feeding, better able to handle a wide range of bullet weights and different powders. Obsolete? Not in my opinion.
I have one .308 for Palma matches where it's required and that's just about all I use it for but I shoot .30-06 in tons of other matches from 300 to 1000 yards and do well with it. In the past, I've shot .308 for everything from 300 Meter international to across the course and as a prone cartridge, I have a lot of experience with it, and in comparison, the .30-06 just does a better job overall.
You might enjoy the following article:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/11/cartridges-logical-30-06.html
I have one .308 for Palma matches where it's required and that's just about all I use it for but I shoot .30-06 in tons of other matches from 300 to 1000 yards and do well with it. In the past, I've shot .308 for everything from 300 Meter international to across the course and as a prone cartridge, I have a lot of experience with it, and in comparison, the .30-06 just does a better job overall.
You might enjoy the following article:
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/11/cartridges-logical-30-06.html
John, you know you want one!
As to the other article linked by BHarvey, I don't disagree with what it says, but it misses an important point - the .308's advantage was real only with arsenal match ammo which was widely used at the time, especially at the Nationals. The .30-06 M72 was a moderate load, adequate for the Garand, using 4895 which leaves a lot of airspace whereas the M118 .308 ammo, also loaded with 4895, but filing the smaller case, was more accurate. Both M72 and M118 used the arsenal 173 FMJ, a decent bullet, but one that didn't take advantage of the .30-06's capacity. Then there's the issue of the M1 vs. the M14 which we'll leave aside for now.
In a modern bolt action rifle with appropriate handloads and bullet weights, I don't have any doubt about the .30-06's performance advantage based on many thousands of rounds fired with both.
As to the other article linked by BHarvey, I don't disagree with what it says, but it misses an important point - the .308's advantage was real only with arsenal match ammo which was widely used at the time, especially at the Nationals. The .30-06 M72 was a moderate load, adequate for the Garand, using 4895 which leaves a lot of airspace whereas the M118 .308 ammo, also loaded with 4895, but filing the smaller case, was more accurate. Both M72 and M118 used the arsenal 173 FMJ, a decent bullet, but one that didn't take advantage of the .30-06's capacity. Then there's the issue of the M1 vs. the M14 which we'll leave aside for now.
In a modern bolt action rifle with appropriate handloads and bullet weights, I don't have any doubt about the .30-06's performance advantage based on many thousands of rounds fired with both.
Dan, great choice! My article shows the reamer I use, it's a good one. A 1:11" twist barrel 28" long is my preferred setup, I like the heavy Palma or MTU profiles to put some weight out there.
A real "go to" load is 53 to 54 gr. H4350 and a Sierra 190, whatever it takes to go about 2780 to 2820 fps. The Berger 175 is a great alternate choice at 2900 fps. The Sierra 200 is another good choice.
I hope you get a chance to build it and to enjoy it!
A real "go to" load is 53 to 54 gr. H4350 and a Sierra 190, whatever it takes to go about 2780 to 2820 fps. The Berger 175 is a great alternate choice at 2900 fps. The Sierra 200 is another good choice.
I hope you get a chance to build it and to enjoy it!
German,
what can you use it for on your side of the Atlantic?
Over here, .30-06 is dead in everything except Historic Arms competition shooting with M1917s and '03s. It's not allowed in 'Target Rifle' as that's restricted to 0.303" (Ha! Ha!), .223 Rem and .308 Win.
That only leaves bench shooting and F-Class, the latter in the Open class. I know of one or two '06 fans who tried it in F in the early days, but it's outclassed in any longer range match by the big 7s that completely dominate F-Open in the UK.
Laurie,
York, England
what can you use it for on your side of the Atlantic?
Over here, .30-06 is dead in everything except Historic Arms competition shooting with M1917s and '03s. It's not allowed in 'Target Rifle' as that's restricted to 0.303" (Ha! Ha!), .223 Rem and .308 Win.
That only leaves bench shooting and F-Class, the latter in the Open class. I know of one or two '06 fans who tried it in F in the early days, but it's outclassed in any longer range match by the big 7s that completely dominate F-Open in the UK.
Laurie,
York, England
Laurie, things are a bit different here, I use it for everything except Palma matches. We shoot 300, 500, 600 or 1000 yard prone matches every week and it's perfect for that. I like my 6BR and 6XC also, but the .30-06 is more fun for me, easier on barrels and I have tons of .30 caliber bullets to shoot so it's relatively cheap to shoot from inventory rather than buy new stuff.
A couple of weeks ago at our club 1000 yard match, I finished second, one point behind a many time national champion who was shooting with a 6.5-284, he shot one string with a scope as the match conditions allowed. I would rather win, but one point down to that combination with all iron sights .30-06 with "obsolete" Sierra 190's isn't a bad outcome and it put a big smile on my face!
I don't shoot our acorss-the-course Highpower matches anymore, but I shot .30-06 in that for many years, both in the service rifle and the match rifle and had nothing but satisfaction from the results. I may at some point use the RT10 tubegun for that again.
A couple of weeks ago at our club 1000 yard match, I finished second, one point behind a many time national champion who was shooting with a 6.5-284, he shot one string with a scope as the match conditions allowed. I would rather win, but one point down to that combination with all iron sights .30-06 with "obsolete" Sierra 190's isn't a bad outcome and it put a big smile on my face!
I don't shoot our acorss-the-course Highpower matches anymore, but I shot .30-06 in that for many years, both in the service rifle and the match rifle and had nothing but satisfaction from the results. I may at some point use the RT10 tubegun for that again.
I'm surprized you haven't been assailed by 308'ers.
German proves the 30-06 is accurate at distance and probably has an edge in LR being able chuck the 185-190's a little quicker. (and safer) If it could push 220's then it might be enough to push the 308 aside a bit. For NRA shooting, it has the rules against it since 308's get to hide in their own classes.
I say shoot which ever one you have it will be the driver that makes the diffrence. If I were going to go with one or the other, I would go 308 for a lot of practical reasons. If your looking for a balistic advantage I would leave them both behind.
Just my $0.02
"Imay will at some point use the RT10 tubegun for that again."
I see that. See you this summer!
German proves the 30-06 is accurate at distance and probably has an edge in LR being able chuck the 185-190's a little quicker. (and safer) If it could push 220's then it might be enough to push the 308 aside a bit. For NRA shooting, it has the rules against it since 308's get to hide in their own classes.
I say shoot which ever one you have it will be the driver that makes the diffrence. If I were going to go with one or the other, I would go 308 for a lot of practical reasons. If your looking for a balistic advantage I would leave them both behind.
Just my $0.02
"I
I see that. See you this summer!
German,
thank you for the insight. I'm interested (and pleased too as I always had a soft spot for this cartridge, my first ever centrefire rifle being an early 1920s M1903 Springfield), that the 'received wisdom' of .30-06 being 'less acurate' than .308W isn't quite as fixed as most people believe.
Laurie
thank you for the insight. I'm interested (and pleased too as I always had a soft spot for this cartridge, my first ever centrefire rifle being an early 1920s M1903 Springfield), that the 'received wisdom' of .30-06 being 'less acurate' than .308W isn't quite as fixed as most people believe.
Laurie
Interesting....I just finished an article claiming the 06 was abandoned by the military AND long range shooters due to the the better accuracy of the 308. :-\ I will try to find it and post it, although you know you can't believe everything on the net ;D
I have no investment in either caliber but find the debate interesting
I have no investment in either caliber but find the debate interesting
Funny, when I first saw the title of this thread, I thought "Hey that German Salazar fellow shoots a .30-06 in competition." 
Indeed, he apparently does!
I only hunt with mine... But it's tempting to build up a competition rifle for the longer range stuff... No doubt. What a wonderful cartridge - love the powder capacity & H4350...
Regards, Guy
Indeed, he apparently does! I only hunt with mine... But it's tempting to build up a competition rifle for the longer range stuff... No doubt. What a wonderful cartridge - love the powder capacity & H4350...
Regards, Guy
Laurie, if the Springfield Armory had not so unjustly discriminated against we poor oppressed left-handed shooters, the 1903 would be my favorite rifle. How I envy those who can shoot it properly!
Rob, the article you read isn't entirely off base, I make no claim that the .30-06 is popular for long-range shooting, only that it is emminently suitable. The cold hard reality is that I am nearly alone in this view - sort of like those few Japanese soldiers, abandoned on remote islands after World War II, not even knowing the war was over and fighting on against whoever appeared. Where's that lefty 1903 when I need it...
Guy, I don't know if you saw the piece I wrote on the new Borden tubegun action, but Santa Claus in the brown truck brought mine back from Raton today with a fresh new .30-06 barrel installed and the tuebgun stock is waiting for it, so another one joins the flock. http://www.bordenrifles.com/
Rob, the article you read isn't entirely off base, I make no claim that the .30-06 is popular for long-range shooting, only that it is emminently suitable. The cold hard reality is that I am nearly alone in this view - sort of like those few Japanese soldiers, abandoned on remote islands after World War II, not even knowing the war was over and fighting on against whoever appeared. Where's that lefty 1903 when I need it...
Guy, I don't know if you saw the piece I wrote on the new Borden tubegun action, but Santa Claus in the brown truck brought mine back from Raton today with a fresh new .30-06 barrel installed and the tuebgun stock is waiting for it, so another one joins the flock. http://www.bordenrifles.com/
German,
I know it's off topic, but I'm a tube-gun stock fan too, being one of a handful of lucky souls in the UK to get an Eliseo B1 to use on my F/TR rifle. I only know of two others in the country, one that's on a long-range bench gun, the other an R5.
Shortly after Gary sent me the stock, the legal shutters slammed down on stock exports from the USA which means only established exporters with a large enough demand to spread the export licence costs over several examples and able and willing to take the paperwork on, will supply us now.
I'd almost certainly have bought one of the S1 models for the Savage competition action if I'd been able get one after Gary introduced it. Instead I've opted for a McRees Precision modular MP-MDSS job - we have a UK importer for these products - an efficient design, but one that a friend described as not only having "fallen out of the ugly tree, but which struck every branch on its way down"! I expect to get some stick (pun) when the rifle is eventually built and take it to the range, while the tubegun is almost universally admired and generates no end of questions.
Laurie
I know it's off topic, but I'm a tube-gun stock fan too, being one of a handful of lucky souls in the UK to get an Eliseo B1 to use on my F/TR rifle. I only know of two others in the country, one that's on a long-range bench gun, the other an R5.
Shortly after Gary sent me the stock, the legal shutters slammed down on stock exports from the USA which means only established exporters with a large enough demand to spread the export licence costs over several examples and able and willing to take the paperwork on, will supply us now.
I'd almost certainly have bought one of the S1 models for the Savage competition action if I'd been able get one after Gary introduced it. Instead I've opted for a McRees Precision modular MP-MDSS job - we have a UK importer for these products - an efficient design, but one that a friend described as not only having "fallen out of the ugly tree, but which struck every branch on its way down"! I expect to get some stick (pun) when the rifle is eventually built and take it to the range, while the tubegun is almost universally admired and generates no end of questions.
Laurie
Laurie, I really like Gary's stocks too - and in fact, they are relevant to a good .30-06 topic because they make the cartridge more shootable since the stock design reduces muzzle flip somewhat.
My Borden action got barelled last week and will be in its Eliseo tube stock by this weekend - I can't wait!
My Borden action got barelled last week and will be in its Eliseo tube stock by this weekend - I can't wait!
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.