irresponsability on Public Forums

[Rustystud]

First, "I would like to commend Paul for having one of the absolute best "Gun/Shooting web site. Second, I will say I learn something new every day. Keeping an open mind to new methods of gunsmithing, reloading, shooting ect. When it comes to guns and ammunition there is an organization callied "SAAMI" Small Arms and Ammunition Manufactures Intitute. They are the "HOLLY Grail" of Firearms and Ammunition here in America. SAAMI publishes detailed specifications of reconized cartridges and chamberings. Due to the fact firearmed have inherant dangers and manufactures and gunsmiths face circumstances beyond their control their liability insurers require them to operate within SAAMI specs.
There are many ways to customize firearms and or ammunition, however most are engineered to fall with those SAAMI specs. We live in a free society and freedom of speach is allowed. Along with free speach comes responsability. If free speach causes harm to someone we have liability,(civil law} to prevent and protect our society from peoples irresponsability and neglegence. Several times past and present I have talked with Paul about post that are questionable and potentionally dangerous. I would like to say the internet is a great place to get information. It also is a great place to get misinfgormation. There are several posters on this site who have good intentions but lack technical expertise to accurately post the subject that they post on. I reccommend that persons taking on new gunsmithing and reloading activities that they completely research credible sources for their gunsmithing and reloading advice. For those who ae posting far beyond your training, experience, and IQ please quit as it is discrediting you and this wonderful web site.
Nat Lambeth

 

[Raythemanroe]

Is it Irresponsible to post anything other then SAAMI specs? That would be the end of a great forum and any do it your self information..General reloading is to void any warranty given..May as well buy some paper manufactures reprint :-\

 

[Bindi2]

SAAMI specs for the 303 Brit are not the specs that the British military used long before SAAMI exisited. So dont take SAAMI as gospel they may not be right and just as libel for being wrong.

 

[CatShooter]

None of the Ackley Improved cartridges are covered by SAAMI - none of the PPC cartridges are under SAAMI - most of the new 6mm and 6,6mm cartridges that are popular in PB bench, and long range shooting are NOT covered by SAAMI - most of the loads we shoot are over SAAMI, and many factory loads are over SAAMI...

... SAAMI is a good start, but not the final word.

 

[loudandproud]

I dont think any of my precision grade ammo is SAAMI. Im a Mechanical engineer... im sure... positive actually that there is wiggle room in the SAAMI spec.

I also build drag motors for cars and street bikes. I routinely run nitrous setups on them... if it pops...sorry. nature of the beast. Same thing...

Its user beware. Noone is holdin a gun to your head.

 

[watercam]

I know where Rustystud is coming from.
I, too, am guilty of loading my ammunition close to maximum for a little help at the 1000 yard line. That being said I was next to a gentleman, a very experienced shooter and reloader, who blew up his Winchester rifle with a load that he was sure was 'OK". The action held but that was about it. Stock and magazine parts flew every which way and he was cut by flying debris. Somehow the rest of us were startled but unhurt. To this day he is not sure what happened. The previous loads in his box were fine as were the subsequent rounds in the box that he broke down. It was .257 Roberts that he had been shooting and loading for over twenty years.
All he is saying is that being safe beats the alternative!

 

[savagedasher]

I have about a pound of RL 23.5 or close From my stupid mistake. I have be reloading 50+ years. We all know any time we Reload mistakes can and will happen. There is No SAMMI specifactions on most of the wild cats. But the parent case pretty much does. When I post I try to never tell any loads that is above the parent case. Prime example how mistakes happen is I posted the water grains and max pressure. And posted 10 more grains of powder then the case would hold. Larry

 

[Bindi2]

I know where Rustystud is coming from.
I, too, am guilty of loading my ammunition close to maximum for a little help at the 1000 yard line. That being said I was next to a gentleman, a very experienced shooter and reloader, who blew up his Winchester rifle with a load that he was sure was 'OK". The action held but that was about it. Stock and magazine parts flew every which way and he was cut by flying debris. Somehow the rest of us were startled but unhurt. To this day he is not sure what happened. The previous loads in his box were fine as were the subsequent rounds in the box that he broke down. It was .257 Roberts that he had been shooting and loading for over twenty years.
All he is saying is that being safe beats the alternative!

SAAMI spec brass for the 303 Brit is not safe. I refuse to buy or use SAAMI spec 303 brass. I found out the hard way being safe is measure before you buy or use.

 

[NateHaler]

First, "I would like to commend Paul for having one of the absolute best "Gun/Shooting web site. Second, I will say I learn something new every day. Keeping an open mind to new methods of gunsmithing, reloading, shooting ect. When it comes to guns and ammunition there is an organization callied "SAAMI" Small Arms and Ammunition Manufactures Intitute. They are the "HOLLY Grail" of Firearms and Ammunition here in America. SAAMI publishes detailed specifications of reconized cartridges and chamberings. Due to the fact firearmed have inherant dangers and manufactures and gunsmiths face circumstances beyond their control their liability insurers require them to operate within SAAMI specs.
There are many ways to customize firearms and or ammunition, however most are engineered to fall with those SAAMI specs. We live in a free society and freedom of speach is allowed. Along with free speach comes responsability.

I totally disagree. The reader of information must be responsible, i.e. must acknowledge that the advice or information cannot be relied upon. Imagine if, like your post above, the error was simply a typographical mistake (or fundamentally-bad basic arithmetic)...

This forum should be held no more accountable than the articles describing "The Top Five Cupcake Recipes".

 

[Raythemanroe]

Verify, Verify, I try to add links to Hodgdon or who ever instead of giving max loads..I on the other hand like knowing what people get out of there rifle\caliber before I build one or peak my interest for that given caliber bullet combo..Nice to know real world info, That's kinda what makes this site a go to place for me...

 

[SDWhirlwind]

I am flabbergasted.....you mean a FL sized or new case with Scotch tape IS NOT industry standard for measuring SAAMI chamber specs??? For the Love of God and Country I read it on the internet so it must be true. After all the cheap slob that posted "Scotch" brand is a standard of measure in the smithing and reloading world knows what he is talking about and you don't dare criticize anything he says or recommends!

One thing to do it yourself or recommend the same 'I am a cheap slob' practice in a PM, IMO very irresponsible to post it on an open forum as you have no idea if someone else reading it fully understands the consequences if you substitute or haven't a clue what you are doing!! Will they all use the same brand of tape? New undersized case? Too long fired case from a friends gun? etc etc Wait, I read on the net that a 6mm Rem was almost the 'same' as a 243 Win so I will use this 6mm fired case I have to setup my 243 barrel....or, a 223 case with tape should work for my 222 because they are close! Don't laugh or think this is farfetched, I have seen some pretty surprising things brought to me over the years so put nothing past the 'average' gun owner trying to save some money!!

Just my opinion but am sure I will hear how ignorant I am for such a remark. We are here to help one another safely, not save them $30 on the 'PROPER' method to safely check or get someone injured. Posted this same comment to this procedure when a 'prominent' hobby hack from PA on SH recommended 'SCOTCH tape' a while back and he immediately started taking cheap shots at my user name, being disabled and what I had typed in my profile concerning occupation so nothing would surprise me on the net anymore. He is an engineer however and myself, well.....just a p*ssant from SD! One of the reasons I quit posting there and rarely anywhere else anymore.

 

[djtjr]

Not sure if much of my stiff is saami spec but I will say I have seen a lot of bad info and ideas online. One recently on another site was a guys guessing what his powder charge was on a wildcat as he didn't write it down over a year ago. Rather than build up he just started at that number. By the time I could reply that his recollection was about 6 grains over my hot load with identical components h wrote back say INC oops he blew primers etc... It's also bad as some won't post that they were way off and someone who may see this and take it as gospel could lose fingers or worse. If you see misinformation point it out.

 

[shortgrass]

You always see the fantastic success someone has had by "cheatin'", rarely are the failures posted.

 

[jonbearman]

First off I always invest in headspace gages as any other method may be a mile off,secondly,I cant believe how many guys reload and wont invest say 100.00 in a few good manuals to verify suggestins on this site or any other.One thing I learned early on was verify and verify again.I always start low and work up.Yet I have seen so many people that look for load help and I see overpressure loads presented on a daily basis.It should be a unwritten law to have to buy at least one well respected load manual before you even think of reloading.It is also amazing how many people cant google hodgdon or any site showing powder manuals.I really fear for the safety of some on every board I have visited with their reloading tactics.If you dont understand something and you are trying to do it blindly,stop and regroup,read a book on the subject and try to learn before you try something so dangerous you could end your life or someone else's life period.I remember my first attempt at headspacing and I was so nervous ,I took it to a gunshop and had him slip my gage in and see if I set it right. I was relieved when the go gage went in and the no go didnt.He was pleased and so was I to see my book education worked but not others who try to cheat and not invest in good quality tools.