Interesting situation……

[762willdo]

Trying out a new bullet going from .22 73 Berger to the 70, anyways I load 5 rounds each of 2520 at 24.5, 25 and 25.5 grains primer was SRM 450’s……… also loaded 1 fouling round As I just cleaned the barrel
temp was somewhere between 35 and 40 degrees
loaded and fired the fouling round
loaded first round of the 24.5 and click…..thought I got a bad primer loaded the next four and fired normally
waited 10 minutes in my truck cause it was a little chilly
loaded first round of the 25 and click……loaded next four and fired normally
waited 10 minutes in my truck
loaded the first round of the 25.5 and click………WTF, loaded the next four and fired normally
what are the freaking odds?
got home and took them all apart all was perfect except for the firing pin strike on the primer
any of you gurus know what’s going on because I’m stumped……

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Its your gun not the ammo. Clean the bolt interior

 

[Walt Krafft]

Dusty is correct. If it is a bolt gun clean the inside of the bolt. If is is an AR, clean the whole bolt assembly and the trigger group. Also make sure the AR is going completely into battery.

 

[762willdo]

That was my first thought maybe a piece of primer stuck in there, I had tore it down the week before and cleaned it but I tore it down anyways and no joy, clean as a whistle no pieces, also a dirty bolt not firing on the first round of each string? Seems unlikely

 

[Homerange]

Well you never do know.....
Son's spanking new Tikka Hunter in 243 started this with under 50 rounds down the tube and the insides of the bolt looked as a new rifle should so thinking it was a crook spring it went back to the NZ master agent for their inhouse gunsmith to sort.
When they sent us a bill for stripping and cleaning the bolt and nothing else we told them where to shove it and they backed down as this certainly was a factory lubrication/warranty issue.

Check some factory ammo as proof the issue is with the bolt or not and take it from there.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

That was my first thought maybe a piece of primer stuck in there, I had tore it down the week before and cleaned it but I tore it down anyways and no joy, clean as a whistle no pieces, also a dirty bolt not firing on the first round of each string? Seems unlikely

Ill bet a coke on it

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

When you cleaned it, did you lube it? It was very cold, maybe lube was stiffening up and it took a firing sequence to free up after sitting. Try it next time with a dry fire an see if that works.

Frank

 

[ebb]

I have not had much experience with cold weather shooting but have read that you need to use dry lube when its cold out. When i hunted in Gunnison CO i took the bolt apart and used the dry graphite powder to lube locks. I had no problems.

 

[PigButtons]

I like the cold lube idea ( my first thought also ), but the first round fired was the fouling round and it fired normally. Unless the rifle was allowed to sit outside long enough to stiffen the lube before firing the first 24.5 round there is something else at work.

 

[SeabeeKen]

May I ask what lubes and cleaners you used? Ive tested dozens over the past couple years and had some interesting results.

 

[boltfluter]

Sounds like a questionable firing pin spring to me. Fine in warm weather but a no go in the cold. Been there and done that!! More than once!

Paul

 

[Bill K]

I would also say, clean the bolt fully and lube it and parts with either Hobo oil or Ballistol, for parts to work smoothly in cold or hot weather.

 

[M-61]

35°- 40° seems (to me) a long way from cold.

 

[RegionRat]

@762willdo , I'll just pass some food for thought along and let you decide if anything is useful...

You mention the ammo was all handloads for the purpose of playing with a different bullet, but what is the history of the system?

Is the gun new? History of reliability? Different primers this time or always with 450s?

Describe the gun? Which 223 is it?

Is the brass new or different?

Is the shoulder datum line still okay on those rounds that didn't ignite?

How deep were those primers? Was the pin impact dent deep or shallow?

I think you will want to at least split the problem in half, i.e., ammo or gun?

It is likely that if your inspection at home right after that troubled session didn't turn up anything obvious, you will have to test again and see if the problem repeats.

If you prepare with hand loads, is it possible to include some other ammo or different primer? That way, if the factory ammo, and carefully screened hand loads fail to ignite, we would at least isolate the problem to the gun and then break it down from there.

Many times in my life, I had guns that didn't belong to me handed over for troubleshooting of unreliable ignition. Everything from .17 to 16". That was work life but I have had it happen in my own life with hunting guests many times. So many times that I haul spare parts and tools so that I can fix bolts in the hotel rooms at matches or while hunting. I even had it happen to the first two Savage 12s that I owned, one brand new and one used. Unfortunately it is more common than I like to think, and even within the MIL/LEO communities. Having this happen on a hunt or target range is one thing, but having it happen on a two way target range is another...

Once you get into a bolt gun and don't find the firing pin fouled with damage, debris, or lube, you have to quickly asses the protrusion and firing pin spring against specifications. Getting authoritative information on the specifications takes some digging, (and some brands are still a debate). If you describe the rig, maybe someone on here can help out if the investigation ends up going down that road.

The longer you live in that troubleshooting world, the more you will learn that the list of things that can cause unreliable ignition is longer than you think... Hope you find it. Good Luck!

 

[Webster]

Trying out a new bullet going from .22 73 Berger to the 70, anyways I load 5 rounds each of 2520 at 24.5, 25 and 25.5 grains primer was SRM 450’s……… also loaded 1 fouling round As I just cleaned the barrel
temp was somewhere between 35 and 40 degrees
loaded and fired the fouling round
loaded first round of the 24.5 and click…..thought I got a bad primer loaded the next four and fired normally
waited 10 minutes in my truck cause it was a little chilly
loaded first round of the 25 and click……loaded next four and fired normally
waited 10 minutes in my truck
loaded the first round of the 25.5 and click………WTF, loaded the next four and fired normally
what are the freaking odds?
got home and took them all apart all was perfect except for the firing pin strike on the primer
any of you gurus know what’s going on because I’m stumped……

As Dusty said clean the bolt. Bolt action. Don't know how AR's work. Try to spray brake cleaner into the shroud area. Make sure you put oil on the bolt shroud assembly. I soak the shroud with oil and wipe off any excess. The firing pin assembly slides thru the shroud and it is the place of greatest friction. Cock the bolt so that the FP assembly sticks out farther from the shroud. You should see the shiny spots where rubbing occurs from a minimum clearance. You cannot view rubbing areas inside the shroud.

 

[PigButtons]

@762willdo , I'll just pass some food for thought along and let you decide if anything is useful...

You mention the ammo was all handloads for the purpose of playing with a different bullet, but what is the history of the system?

Is the gun new? History of reliability? Different primers this time or always with 450s?

Describe the gun? Which 223 is it?

Is the brass new or different?

Is the shoulder datum line still okay on those rounds that didn't ignite?

How deep were those primers? Was the pin impact dent deep or shallow?

I think you will want to at least split the problem in half, i.e., ammo or gun?

It is likely that if your inspection at home right after that troubled session didn't turn up anything obvious, you will have to test again and see if the problem repeats.

If you prepare with hand loads, is it possible to include some other ammo or different primer? That way, if the factory ammo, and carefully screened hand loads fail to ignite, we would at least isolate the problem to the gun and then break it down from there.

Many times in my life, I had guns that didn't belong to me handed over for troubleshooting of unreliable ignition. Everything from .17 to 16". That was work life but I have had it happen in my own life with hunting guests many times. So many times that I haul spare parts and tools so that I can fix bolts in the hotel rooms at matches or while hunting. I even had it happen to the first two Savage 12s that I owned, one brand new and one used. Unfortunately it is more common than I like to think, and even within the MIL/LEO communities. Having this happen on a hunt or target range is one thing, but having it happen on a two way target range is another...

Once you get into a bolt gun and don't find the firing pin fouled with damage, debris, or lube, you have to quickly asses the protrusion and firing pin spring against specifications. Getting authoritative information on the specifications takes some digging, (and some brands are still a debate). If you describe the rig, maybe someone on here can help out if the investigation ends up going down that road.

The longer you live in that troubleshooting world, the more you will learn that the list of things that can cause unreliable ignition is longer than you think... Hope you find it. Good Luck!

Thanks for posting. Hard won experience to be sure.