Initial report on eTargets from Lodi Nationals

[XTR]

Sounds like it is turning into belly benchrest. Ways are already found around the 7 seconds.

Care to expand some?

 

[Heman]

Care to expand some?

Sounds like a hater that just wants to complain. I have two teams up at Lodi shooting and they said they are working fine through mid-range. Haven't heard back from today yet. People who are against the e-targets and just want to complain will find something to complain about.

 

[Dennis]

Can you fire fast enough to beat the 7 sec delay; yes you can. But your actual scores will still show up in the order fired. I watched one competitor do it.......4 8's in a row due to a rapid wind change while attempting to do this. On a day where it is dead calm with no wind or mirage it may work out for you. Lodi seldom has those days. No matter what system you use, there are people who will try to beat it.

 

[MattPeetz]

Sounds like a hater that just wants to complain. I have two teams up at Lodi shooting and they said they are working fine through mid-range. Haven't heard back from today yet. People who are against the e-targets and just want to complain will find something to complain about.

Hardly a hater. Just facts as Dennis said. Your score and coordinates come up right away. The 7 second delay is for showing the hit.
If you shoot two x's or 10's in a row and the cordinates are fairly close you fire within a couple seconds before the previous shot is marked.

Am i there? No but coming from some respected shooters.
E targets are the future and look forward to them. All the bugs needed to be worked out before a national tourney IMO.
I'm sure the code can be re written for this but should have been dealt with before.
It takes away from the sport.

 

[spclark]

I believe that as of this morning, shot coordinates have been 'moved' behind the 7-second veil. Score still comes up quick so if you're in the X-ring & feel lucky, it's your call.

 

[Heman]

Hardly a hater. Just facts as Dennis said. Your score and coordinates come up right away. The 7 second delay is for showing the hit.
If you shoot two x's or 10's in a row and the cordinates are fairly close you fire within a couple seconds before the previous shot is marked.

Am i there? No but coming from some respected shooters.
E targets are the future and look forward to them. All the bugs needed to be worked out before a national tourney IMO.
I'm sure the code can be re written for this but should have been dealt with before.
It takes away from the sport.

Yes I know what the 7 second delay is for. However its not that big of a deal. We have ran SMTs all season long. Our shooters don't machine gun them down.

 

[MattPeetz]

I believe that as of this morning, shot coordinates have been 'moved' behind the 7-second veil. Score still comes up quick so if you're in the X-ring & feel lucky, it's your call.

That is good. Can the score be moved too? At some point

 

[Dennis]

I believe that as of this morning, shot coordinates have been 'moved' behind the 7-second veil. Score still comes up quick so if you're in the X-ring & feel lucky, it's your call.

As stated, what shows up on your screen immediately after fire may not be your true score. After the delay your actual score shows up. How lucky do you feel?

 

[XTR]

As stated, what shows up on your screen immediately after fire may not be your true score. After the delay your actual score shows up. How lucky do you feel?

If this is true it seems as if it may be a great way to get a scorer to record an incorrect score, what's the point of showing something that may not be accurate. (I agree it should be in the delay too)

 

[spclark]

As stated, what shows up on your screen immediately after fire may not be your true score. After the delay your actual score shows up.

I'm not aware that's how the system is set up to operate; I'll try to verify tomorrow.

Scorers today were using that initial display to record shot values on the paper cards provided (and turned in after signing). I didn't note any instances of shooters asking scorers to check/change shot values before next shot was fired, which I'd expect if the initial value was incorrect.

 

[praveen]

As stated, what shows up on your screen immediately after fire may not be your true score. After the delay your actual score shows up. How lucky do you feel?

This is not exactly true. Certain shot values may be marked with an asterix (*) besides them. This happens if the microphones picked up another simultaneous shot from an adjacent target. If so, the server runs a sanity check against that particular shot. If you, as a shooter think that the shot value is too weird (e.g. a miss at 300 yard when all the previous shots were clean), you could challenge that.
Othewise, the calculations to determine your score are done as soon as the mics pick up the sonic boom. So what shows up on your screen is the correct shot value. The 7 second delay is artificially introduced in the software.

 

[JBO]

Can you fire fast enough to beat the 7 sec delay; yes you can. But your actual scores will still show up in the order fired. I watched one competitor do it.......4 8's in a row due to a rapid wind change while attempting to do this. On a day where it is dead calm with no wind or mirage it may work out for you. Lodi seldom has those days. No matter what system you use, there are people who will try to beat it.

That's correct, it's at your own peril to try and run and gun. Switches would come so fast it would be foolish to try doing that more then one shot ahead and many scores suffered trying that. I watched MANY shoot X ring, right 9, hold off left shoot left 9 then a X, out the bottom 8, right 9, left 8, X, out the top 9 stop shooting and re-strategize

 

[Lou Murdica]

I think e targets records should be separate that pullers records .

 

[dcali]

This delay issue sounds like a software bug. There's no reason to allow that to happen - ideally, an early shot should be scored by the software as a miss. Hopefully they fix it before long.

 

[memilanuk]

The delay was an intentionally added feature to keep people from machine-gunning rounds down range like in BR, with no regard for reading the conditions. Seven seconds was decided upon as an acceptable value equivalent to having a pretty good target puller in the pits - and everyone gets the *same* time, not five seconds here, 15 seconds there, and 45 seconds over here on another.

 

[Cburlette]

I think overall the Silver Mountain targets worked great, there were connectivity problems, and everyone saw the big red X at sometime during the day, but in general all went well.

There was a lot of mistrust in the system and I think that could have been alleviated by setting up 1 new target per match and pulling it after the first relay. Then display it by the range truck with a printout of the relay. By the end of the match everyone would be happy, and confident, with the system as a whole.

 

[dcali]

The delay was an intentionally added feature to keep people from machine-gunning rounds down range like in BR, with no regard for reading the conditions. Seven seconds was decided upon as an acceptable value equivalent to having a pretty good target puller in the pits - and everyone gets the *same* time, not five seconds here, 15 seconds there, and 45 seconds over here on another.

Sure, but it seems like a shot fired before the 7 seconds are up ought to be scored as a miss.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Sure, but it seems like a shot fired before the 7 seconds are up ought to be scored as a miss.

I actually agree with this - because as JBO pointed out earlier, while it was mostly a very risky strategy to followup an 'X' before the plot displayed (plenty of guys got burned trying it), there were times when it could work, for at least a couple shots. The shooters who got one of the few "bunny" relays (and there were a couple), would have been able to really take advantage. More power to them if they did and it worked out - way to think strategically and be confident in your evaluation of the conditions.

My guess is that they will update the software in the future to not display the score before the plot displays. Could have just been an oversight and they didn't want to risk an update at the last minute.

 

[XTR]

Sure, but it seems like a shot fired before the 7 seconds are up ought to be scored as a miss.

If you fire a shot before your target is pulled and marked on paper you are only getting points on one for them. If you shoot 2 (or more) shots on an E target before your target is marked the rule should be the same.

 

[spclark]

This 7-second delay thing is one of the moves done to get the technology to a first-time-ever large event. You can't shoot at a target that's not there yet but with the ET's the target's always there so a kludge was implemented in an attempt to make the new way aporoximate the old.

I agree on the shot fired before 7 seconds is up is a miss though admit to shooting pretty darn fast earlier this year for both 20-shot, 600-yard stages at a Regional there. No delay for sling-shooters... yet.

This, and the 'post a paper target after one relay' scheme are things that will be worked out going forward to make everything anticipated (but perhaps not quite fully thought out) work better.

The Big Red X was too frequent on the low end Wednesday & Thursday. Mark & I discussed what was happening (I was the guy in green windbreaker frantically running from point to point to help everyone get over the issues), two wifi relays were repositioned for Friday & things improved significantly. Not 100% perfect I agree, but 1,000% better than the day before.