Ingenuity precision sightings

[X Count]

My thanks to all of you guys. Your assistance here in the thread and in DMs helped me make a choice on Supertrickler vs. Autotrickler. There are tradeoffs of course, but I think the Autotrickler will meet my needs without going aboveboard. And then, the CE Products black friday $985 package is back up.

To my thinking, the main difficulty with Autotrickler is that it's tied to a smartphone app. Adam will have to keep the app current. If he doesn't, then I'll have an expensive paperweight. At least the balance is stand-alone. A reasonable risk. Supertrickler is pretty cool. I like the "levers/buttons/knobs" which are ripe for fiddling. As an engineer, I can't help myself. But for me, that may be its downfall. Too many fiddly bits for my needs. It's probably overkill. The final blow is emptying and clearing out Supertrickler. F-Class John's video showed what that was about. Autotrickler by comparison is easy-peasy.

All in all, Autotrickler is a significant step up from my existing setup of powder thrower, Creedmoor scale and Dandy Trickler. It works but it's awkward and slow. I also dallied with an RCBS Chargemaster Lite. A piece of junk, it overcharges and then lies about it. Says it hits the mark but when checked it can go over by a significant amount.

At any rate, my search is over. I know . . . . Over for now, until the next shiny thing pops up. Ingenuity Precision may be next up. It probably sounds like I'm planning obsolescence.

I had the autotrickler v1 (when he was using a modified RCBS trickler!) and now the V4. I've had a few minor issues along the way but Adam has always been very helpful. Also had one of the very early shot marker systems and along with customer service, one thing that stands out with Adams products is that the apps and firmware are very thought out and future proof.

The V4 dispenses fairly well but nowhere near as consistent as a friend's ingenuity.

 

[Bat Rastard]

After reading the threads about all the delays, I have got on the list!

 

[sgav8r]

I fear it will still be a while. The lack of ANY recent explanation out of IP is sadly kind of a “red flag” it seems. I hope it’s not anything personal like a health or financial setback. If it’s simply just hardware/production related details being ironed out there’s no reason NOT to communicate that. Either way it makes a person wonder what the ownership experience will be like.

Incidentlally I’ve now purchased a SuperTrickler too (still have a V4 incoming). I will now have three FX scales, one with a V4, one with a ST and one waiting (patiently) for the IP!

Should be quite an experience if I ever get to enjoy having all three side by side on my bench!

 

[Russell27]

Still wondering if anybody has received any of their orders yet I’m also in the group of thinking of pre-ordering I hear it’s 5 to 6 month Wait right now.

 

[sgav8r]

Still wondering if anybody has received any of their orders yet I’m also in the group of thinking of pre-ordering I hear it’s 5 to 6 month Wait right now.

I have not heard of a single actual preorder being filled… Yet. I imagine when (if) people DO start getting shipping notifications, these forums will light up with activity like the Las Vegas strip!

Where’d you get the 5-6 month estimate? That seems like an arbitrary figure. I’ll honestly be surprised if even one single EARLY preorder is filled by then. At some point you just have to figure that delay upon delay upon delay, and excuse after excuse after excuse. To the point where communication goes completely dead and there’s NO MORE estimates and NO MORE promises … means one thing. Something else is at play, and it’s truly “vaporware”. I really hope that’s not true because I have the cash in hand, and I would JUMP at the opportunity to get that system on my bench; just like I’m sure everyone else feels too. Kinda sad at this point.

 

[Russell27]

Yeah, exactly I would definitely be all over this if it was available, and the 5 to 6 month came from an email from them. I asked what the ETA was that’s what I was told. Hopefully they start coming available like you said a lot of people will be all over it.

 

[Lakotah]

I’ve been waiting 2 years. Still nothing. I’ve realized it’s better to look for something else.

 

[sgav8r]

Yeah, exactly I would definitely be all over this if it was available, and the 5 to 6 month came from an email from them. I asked what the ETA was that’s what I was told. Hopefully they start coming available like you said a lot of people will be all over it.

Well either way it doesn’t hurt to just preorder. It’s literally a no obligation preorder. You just get an invoice and an order number. No money exchanges hands. I did mine just back in November so I’m sure I’m WAAAAAY down the list of preorders. But oh well, the way I see it is I’m ahead of anyone who preorders after me! If this thing ever comes to fruition it’s gonna be a big big deal!

 

[d0nkey]

I had the autotrickler v1 (when he was using a modified RCBS trickler!) and now the V4. I've had a few minor issues along the way but Adam has always been very helpful. Also had one of the very early shot marker systems and along with customer service, one thing that stands out with Adams products is that the apps and firmware are very thought out and future proof.

The V4 dispenses fairly well but nowhere near as consistent as a friend's ingenuity.

When you say consistent, can you elaborate? Is your v4 over or under shooting it's target often? I'm quite happy with my v4 and its accuracy and consistency and am trying to understand the intrigue with the Ingenuity.

 

[MikeRu]

When you say consistent, can you elaborate? Is your v4 over or under shooting it's target often? I'm quite happy with my v4 and its accuracy and consistency and am trying to understand the intrigue with the Ingenuity.

Here’s an early video by FCJ on the IP Trickler as an add on, maybe helpful

YouTube FCJ IP Trickler

 

[X Count]

When you say consistent, can you elaborate? Is your v4 over or under shooting it's target often? I'm quite happy with my v4 and its accuracy and consistency and am trying to understand the intrigue with the Ingenuity.

The auto trickler does final dispense using a tube. As it rotates sometimes nothing comes out, sometimes one kernal falls out and other times 3 or 4 kernals fall out. If 4 kernals fall out when your .02 under then your going to end up .06 over because of the design. With varget and 4350 I think I'd realistically be at 15-20% reject rate aiming for 0 to +.02 of my target weight. Some may be able to get better than that but that's where I'm at.


The IP uses a disc with tiny slots to pick up ONE kernal at a time, every time, and dispense. Using a friend's IP thrower I was about 3% reject rate using varget and had faster throws. It's just better by design and execution.

 

[sgav8r]

The auto trickler does final dispense using a tube. As it rotates sometimes nothing comes out, sometimes one kernal falls out and other times 3 or 4 kernals fall out. If 4 kernals fall out when your .02 under then your going to end up .06 over because of the design. With varget and 4350 I think I'd realistically be at 15-20% reject rate aiming for 0 to +.02 of my target weight. Some may be able to get better than that but that's where I'm at.


The IP uses a disc with tiny slots to pick up ONE kernal at a time, every time, and dispense. Using a friend's IP thrower I was about 3% reject rate using varget and had faster throws. It's just better by design and execution.

I’ll mention that I have been beta-testing some “overserts” for the ATV4’s fine tube. I believe they are going to be made available soon from MK-Machining (possibly packaged along with a set of “shims”). Don’t quote me on this, but I do believe that’s what I understood from the user over on The Hide that hooked me up with these overserts for testing.

In any event, these little overserts are pretty slick. The set I received came with three sizes. One is for ball powders, one for extruded powders with small to medium sized kernels, and one is for large kernel extruded powders such as N570. They’re small 3D printed threaded “tubes” that simply slip on over the fine tube of the ATV4. The key with these overserts is that the threading in them provides much more reliable “metering” of the individual kernels when the fine tube spins. As a result you can push the ATV4 for more speed, with significantly reduced risk of overcharges. Or you can virtually eliminate overcharges altogether if you don’t push the settings for speed.

I have no idea what these things will cost, but I assume they’ll be quite inexpensive and well worth it. I’ve had really good results testing them on my ATV4 with the powders I’ve tried (Varget, N140, N150, Benchmark, AR Comp, 2,000-MR and others).

 

[X Count]

I’ll mention that I have been beta-testing some “overcerts” for the ATV4’s fine tube. I believe they are going to be made available soon from MK-Machining (possibly packaged along with a set of “shims”). Don’t quote me on this, but I do believe that’s what I understood from the user over on The Hide that hooked me up with these overcerts for testing.

In any event, these little overcerts are pretty slick. The set I received came with three sizes. One is for ball powders, one for extruded powders with small to medium sized kernels, and one is for large kernel extruded powders such as N570. They’re small 3D printed threaded “tubes” that simply slip on over the fine tube of the ATV4. The key with these overcerts is that the threading in them provides much more reliable “metering” of the individual kernels when the fine tube spins. As a result you can push the ATV4 for more speed, with significantly reduced risk of overcharges. Or you can virtually eliminate overcharges altogether if you don’t push the settings for speed.

I have no idea what these things will cost, but I assume they’ll be quite inexpensive and well worth it. I’ve had really good results testing them on my ATV4 with the powders I’ve tried (Varget, N140, N150, Benchmark, AR Comp, 2,000-MR and others).

They will likely help but I don't think they will be able to match the IP individually picking up kernals and dropping the into the pan.

 

[PatMiles]

In any event, these little overcerts are pretty slick. The set I received came with three sizes.

Pics please.

 

[sgav8r]

Pics please.

 

[d0nkey]

Here’s an early video by FCJ on the IP Trickler as an add on, maybe helpful

YouTube FCJ IP Trickler

Thank you for the video. Seems as accurate as my v4. I believe anyone can get their v4 very accurate with some tuning. I'll monitor the forum to see when (if?) people will get this one day and see if there is a discernible difference in consistency.

 

[d0nkey]

The auto trickler does final dispense using a tube. As it rotates sometimes nothing comes out, sometimes one kernal falls out and other times 3 or 4 kernals fall out. If 4 kernals fall out when your .02 under then your going to end up .06 over because of the design. With varget and 4350 I think I'd realistically be at 15-20% reject rate aiming for 0 to +.02 of my target weight. Some may be able to get better than that but that's where I'm at.


The IP uses a disc with tiny slots to pick up ONE kernal at a time, every time, and dispense. Using a friend's IP thrower I was about 3% reject rate using varget and had faster throws. It's just better by design and execution.

Great explanation, thank you.

 

[sgav8r]

Pics please.

Here’s a better pic of the 3 ATV4 “overserts” I took today.

 

[sgav8r]

Here’s the info that was included with them. Like I said before, they DO make a difference. I’m perfectly ok with 10-15 (avg 12) second powder throws. With these I can literally get so close to ZERO overthrows that if one does happen it’s a shock (95+% accuracy). I’ve been able to get 6-10 (avg 8) second powder throws (Varget, N140, N150, IMR3031, Benchmark etc), getting about 70% accuracy. One overthrow about every 6-7 throws.