info please on dealing with crimped primers

[bigedp51]

LC and federal still produce to this day non NATO marked 55 gr M193 spec ammo for foreign sales.

Could that be because NATO never adopted the M-193 round to begin with, thus no "NATO Cross"?

Exactly

Another arfcom expert bites the dust. "Exactly" prey tell could you tell me what the NATO cross is doing on M193 ammunition below.

Please note they are Federal boxes "BUT" the cases are marked Lake City and have the NATO cross. So it would appear my information is up to date and far from false. :

Your information is out of date, and false. And is based on outside interpretation and not actual documentation of the supposed mil specs or federal cases failing to meet them. Unless you can produce the actual military specification sheet for non NATO specification US Military 5.56x45mm ammunition casings...

But hey what do I know?

Apparently you don't know as much as you think you do. Below are the milspec pressure requirements for M193 and M855. I can't find my milspec requirements for the cases, BUT its irrelevant, Federal is making non milspec cases and trying to pass them off as military.

MIL-C-9963F
15 October 1976
SUPERSEDING
MIL-C-9963E
12 May 1970

MILITARY SPECIFICATION
CARTRIDGE, 5.56MM, BALL, M193

3.7 Chamber pressure.

3.7.1 Measurement by copper-crush cylinder.-The average chamber pressure of the sample cartridges, conditioned at 70° ± 2°F, shall not exceed 52,000 pounds per square inch (PSI). The average chamber pressure plus three standard deviations of chamber pressure shall not exceed 58,000 PSI.

3.7.2 Measurement by piezoelectric transducer.-The average chamber
pressure of the sample cartridges, conditioned at 70° ± 2°F, shall not
exceed 55,000 PSI. The average chamber pressure plus three standard
deviations of chamber pressure shall not exceed 61,000 PSI.

M118 LR, not a NATO round, also doesn't bear the cross. Neither does Mk318, or Mk316, ( both made by federal btw in the non mil spec cases!! Omg!!) Mk262 Mod 1 does, however it is not a NATO round, but loaded under contract and supplied current manufactured NATO spec cases. But hey what do I know?

Again not as much as you think you do........................Its civilian contract ammunition made for the military and meets contract standards meaning military specifications (milspec)

"Multiple Round, High Velocity (NATO Pressure) 5.56mm 77 grain OTM (Mk262 Mod 1)
Ammo: .223 77 grain Copper Alloy Jacketed Open Top Match rounds with cannelure. Nosler bullets loaded to NATO (military) pressure specifications in Winchester brass by Black Hills as per special order.

And the info came from arfcom. But what do I know. :

http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Ballistic_Gel_Experiments/BTAmmoLabsTest6/Test6.htm

 

[Panzer22]

XM193 is not M193. It's commercial ammo, made with surplus LC cases. XM.. Not the same as M... And it's not experimental either. M193 was never a Nato adopted round. Thats the point here. Nato didnt get on board with the 5.56 as a standard round until the SS109 ammo showed up. we call it M855 and paint the tips green to distunguish it from M193. The nato cross means nato spec, no nato cross doesnt mean it isnt mil spec . thats the whole point. That and that the newer FC cases are not bad. the old ones yes, never disputed that. As for the MK262 i only said it wasnt a nato round but had the cross, because as ypu pointed out it ised winchester cases that are manufactured with the cross. To a pressure spec, not a completed ammunition spec.. having the cross on the case doesnt mean anything except that case is to nato standard. The rest of it has to be produced with all nato spec components in a nato approved manufacturing facility to all the nato specs for the round to be true nato spec. get out of the weeds and look at the whole picture and not just the stamping on a case. Believe what you want man I don't care. You seem to be more of an arfcom expert. If impressing and being impressed by high school kids is your thing then by all means, carry on.

 

[Panzer22]

Oh and actual military ammunition doesn't have commercial warning labels on it... Seriously. I still can't believe you think federal XM anything is military ammo.

 

[Panzer22]

Look no commercial warning labels.... Because its real military issued ammo. Not commercial military looking ammo bought at Walmart or cheaper than dirt, etc.

9mm.... Same thing.


Military contract match ammo that was made in a good FC Case... Not NATO but a very useable case. Not the same as old or commercial FC cases.




LC 88 cases. One was M193, one was M855... No cross, cross. One is NATO spec one is not.


Trying to help you out here, don't take it so personal. But I say again, XM anything is COMMERCIAL ammunition that is made by the Govt contract facility with either surplus components or components that did not meet spec during inspection, and is not made to any military or NATO standard, even if it uses components that do. There is alot more to a spec than a number. Every lot gets inspected as components and finished products. It's a huge undertaking. Military ammunition is held to a pretty high standard. And there are many. NATO and mil spec are not the same. Every component will have a mil spec, even the materials do, primers have strike force specs etc.. The completed cartridge however is either NATO or not, and the ones that are not, may or may not have the cross on the case. It's just ONE part. M193 does have a spec, all it's components have a spec, but it is NOT a NATO round, XM193 Is NOT a Military round. Its made to appear to be one for marketing purposes. They have no reason to follow a spec when the govt isn't buying it. And also federal owns LC now. Shocker

 

[Panzer22]

Ok... Swage is best method, cut out crimps can go too deep. for 223 brass though a fee turns with a case mouth chamfer tool is enough, you dont have to cut deep, the crimpnis very small.

1. old Federal or commercial federal 223 brass is bad. New "FC XX " where the XX is the year is ok. Except it isn't its bad too.
2. Bigedp51 has mad google skills..

3. Everything on the net and arfcom is absolute. Sorry, I forgot.

4. XM193 still isn't military ammo.

5. Atk yes, sorry didn't get into as much detail on the chain of custody there.

6. And I don't have anger issues, thanks for the consult Dr.Phil but I am fine.

Here is IMI M193 made to M193 spec. Notice no NATO cross..



Here is IMI M855 ammo made to spec.. Has NATO cross. Is NATO cartridge.



Israeli made ammo is great ammo btw. And is real military ammo. They still have weapons that require the M193.

Enjoy your weekend. I have to go reevaluate my life now after being so swiftly schooled...

 

[amlevin]

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