info please on dealing with crimped primers

[Willoughby]

when dealing with crimped primers
after removing primer - what is the best way to remove the crimp so new primer goes in properly- not to tight-or to loose

thanks in advance for any help

 

[armaster]

Dillon super swage http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/25290/catid/8/Super_Swage_600_parts

 

[fl3gun]

http://www.mountaineer-brass-processing.com/home/

 

[nhm16]

I have a Dillon Super Swage that was one of the first reloading accessories I bought, and it's basically gathering dust because you have to adjust it for each lot of brass. Now I use a Hornady primer pocket uniformer to cut out the crimp.

 

[stool]

bingo..says the ex dillon dealer.
when working a single lot of brass the swager works great, but the case head thickness varies between lots and tool becomes inconsistant....skip forward....
several vld inside neck reamers will do primer pockets when the tip is shortened a little at a time. and yes the hornady tools seem to work..i just got mine.

I have a Dillon Super Swage that was one of the first reloading accessories I bought, and it's basically gathering dust because you have to adjust it for each lot of brass. Now I use a Hornady primer pocket uniformer to cut out the crimp.

 

[bigedp51]

I use the Hornady unit below, I remove over half the crimp with the VLD deburring tool and then move up to the RCBS crimp remover made for their case prep station. The last thing I use is the Lyman reamer and it is used for a GO NO-GO gauge. If the Lyman reamer fits without touching the job is done.

The RCBS reamer just removes the crimp and bevels the primer pocket opening, it DOES NOT go into the primer pocket and remove ANYTHING from the sides of the primer pocket. Meaning it will not make the primer pocket larger in diameter by removing too much brass.

Having said the above, many times I wish I had the Dillon unit because I have been told it displaces the crimp and you will have fewer cases with oversized primer pockets. I think the crimping pressure and process causes the primer pocket to enlarge and you loose cases to oversized primer pockets.

WARNING, Federal brass is famous for soft brass and oversized primer pockets after the first firing. You will want to "gauge" your primer pockets and NOT do any further work to these cases until you make sure the primer pockets are not over sized.

I bought the primer pocket gauge below but the NO-GO end is 0.175 and you can insert a primer with your fingers if this end fits the primer pocket. And the GO end is 0.172 and too small to tell you anything. They tell you to go by feel BUT .003 is a lot of feel and guesswork.

I turned the NO GO end down to 0.174 and this worked on 95% of the cases and you would have nice tight primer pockets but I was loosing too many cases.

I then ordered a 0.1745 pin gauge that is .0005 or 1/2 thousandths smaller than the average primer diameter and used it as a pass fail gauge. If this pin gauge fits and you can rotate it with your fingers the primer pocket is NFG and the case goes in the scrap bucket.

I made the mistake of prepping and resizing these Federal cases only to find out I had oversized primer pockets. Check you cases after removing the crimp and save your self a lot of work and pushing live primers from over sized cases.

The cases below are not milspec and do not have the NATO symbol stamped on their base. So do not be fooled, these Federal cases are not the same quality as Lake City and have softer brass.

These cases with loose primer pockets will cause bolt face etching, and the primers will fall out on over gassed AR15 rifles and jam the trigger group or Bolt Carrier Group.

I'm old fashioned and always liked bolt actions and revolvers, but my sons talked me into shooting firearms that throw perfectly good brass away. And now I'm tormented and my sons yell at me for looking up to see where my brass goes and loose my cheek weld.

 

[itchyTF]

No brass catcher?

 

[amlevin]

when dealing with crimped primers
after removing primer - [size=12pt]what is the best way to remove the crimp[/size] so new primer goes in properly- not to tight-or to loose

thanks in advance for any help

There are many ways but the BEST is to swage. It reforms the primer pocket without removing metal, galling any surfaces, and may even provide some benefit in strengthening the primer pocket by further work hardening the case head.

Since people usually sort their brass by headstamp, that should already be done before swaging. You only have to adjust the first case in each batch and when properly done, the Dillon (and now RCBS) swaging tools give nice uniform primer pocket side walls, and a nice radius on the mouth.

You question was about the best way, not the cheapest.

 

[Panzer22]

XM193, or regular M193 isn't a NATO cartridge and shouldn't have the NATO cross. Doesn't mean the case isn't mil spec. Just means its not a NATO approved round. Old federal brass did have issues but new production should not.

 

[jpretle]

Use the Dillon or the RCBS press mounted unit. Both are top notch, but I prefer the Dillon. Set it up for one lot/headstamp and you are good for that lot.

 

[ajacinto]

I've personally used a trimmer before to trim out the crimp, but now I changed out to the RCBS primer pocket swager combo http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0063IDAX2/ref=cm_sw_r_fa_dp_uK6Isb0JMTYPW

its relatively inexpensive compared to all the dedicated 'swagging' machines out there... just make sure your press has room for it (see youtube videos)

hope this helps

 

[stool]

but sorting by headstamp is not enough...the cases will vary by LOT......
again been there done that.....
provide some proof to back up your statement that it is the BEST ??

when dealing with crimped primers
after removing primer - [size=12pt]what is the best way to remove the crimp[/size] so new primer goes in properly- not to tight-or to loose

thanks in advance for any help

There are many ways but the BEST is to swage. It reforms the primer pocket without removing metal, galling any surfaces, and may even provide some benefit in strengthening the primer pocket by further work hardening the case head.

Since people usually sort their brass by headstamp, that should already be done before swaging. You only have to adjust the first case in each batch and when properly done, the Dillon (and now RCBS) swaging tools give nice uniform primer pocket side walls, and a nice radius on the mouth.

You question was about the best way, not the cheapest.

 

[bigedp51]

XM193, or regular M193 isn't a NATO cartridge and shouldn't have the NATO cross. Doesn't mean the case isn't mil spec. Just means its not a NATO approved round. Old federal brass did have issues but new production should not.

If it doesn't have the NATO cross it does not meet milspec standards. And Federal is widely known for soft brass and troublesome oversized primer pockets. This subject is well covered at AR15.com and MANY people are having problems with commercial Federal brass being soft and having stretched primer pockets.

In 46 years of reloading I have never seen another make/brand of cases that were this troublesome. In fact I never needed primer pocket gauges or a gauge to measure case web thickness before using Federal brass.

The fact of the matter is Federal isn't making its .223/5.56 brass to milspec standards. Its brass is softer and they are making cases with thin flash hole webs and BOTH these problems cause early primer pocket failure.

This very same problem existed with the first civilian contract ammunition made for the M16 rifle and was one of the related jamming problems with the M16 rifle. And WHY the military set milspec standards for commercial contract military ammunition. When primers fall out of oversized primer pockets with Federal cartridge cases and jam the trigger group or bolt carrier group the cartridge case has a problem. And Federal has forgotten this or just doesn't care and is producing substandard cartridge cases.

This photo below was taken this summer and the new Federal American Eagle box in the photo is just as bad. When reloading for the AR15 you need tight primer pockets, and there is a reason WHY the military crimps its primers in the first place. And not one of the once fired Remington .223 cases I have had a oversized primer pocket.

 

[stool]

EVERYONE TO THEIR OWN OPINION.
i own 6 ar15's in either 5.56 or 223.
i have never fired factory ammo in any of them.
if one has john feamster's book, black magic, he used one lot of 500 pcs
of winchester brass for the book. i bought the brass from him, and am still
shooting that brass today.
i do not shoot wimpy loads, but i also do not shoot overloaded ammo
i have had no issues with loose primer pockets.
maybe some people are over loading and causing issues.

 

[bheadboy]

the above seem to involved or me, i use the RCBS swage, it works no problem with different lots of brass,

Bob

 

[dickn52]

I use the Case Prep Xpress by Lyman. Cleans sizes and whatever else. Never had an issue of too much removed.

 

[Panzer22]

XM193, or regular M193 isn't a NATO cartridge and shouldn't have the NATO cross. Doesn't mean the case isn't mil spec. Just means its not a NATO approved round. Old federal brass did have issues but new production should not.

If it doesn't have the NATO cross it does not meet milspec standards. And Federal is widely known for soft brass and troublesome oversized primer pockets. This subject is well covered at AR15.com and MANY people are having problems with commercial Federal brass being soft and having stretched primer pockets.

In 46 years of reloading I have never seen another make/brand of cases that were this troublesome. In fact I never needed primer pocket gauges or a gauge to measure case web thickness before using Federal brass.

The fact of the matter is Federal isn't making its .223/5.56 brass to milspec standards. Its brass is softer and they are making cases with thin flash hole webs and BOTH these problems cause early primer pocket failure.

This very same problem existed with the first civilian contract ammunition made for the M16 rifle and was one of the related jamming problems with the M16 rifle. And WHY the military set milspec standards for commercial contract military ammunition. When primers fall out of oversized primer pockets with Federal cartridge cases and jam the trigger group or bolt carrier group the cartridge case has a problem. And Federal has forgotten this or just doesn't care and is producing substandard cartridge cases.

This photo below was taken this summer and the new Federal American Eagle box in the photo is just as bad. When reloading for the AR15 you need tight primer pockets, and there is a reason WHY the military crimps its primers in the first place. And not one of the once fired Remington .223 cases I have had a oversized primer pocket.

I guess my LC 88 without NATO cross doesn't meet mil spec standard.... Oh wait, no it does because it was M193 not M855. NATO standard and mil spec are two different things. 5.56 wasn't a NATO round until 1980. The cross means meets NATO specification, mil spec is a very loosely thrown around term that has nothing to do with federal cases. The older lots did not meet NATO spec, the newer that are marked with a cross do. Newer that do not have a cross do not, however, the FC marked cases that are used and purchased by the US military do meet mil spec. Your information is out of date, and false. And is based on outside interpretation and not actual documentation of the supposed mil specs or federal cases failing to meet them. Unless you can produce the actual military specification sheet for non NATO specification US Military 5.56x45mm ammunition casings... Try looking on arfcom where you got the rest of the information.

Also on a side note federal American eagle is a commercial ammunition not a military one and if a mil spec existed they are not bound to follow it.

M118 LR, not a NATO round, also doesn't bear the cross. Neither does Mk318, or Mk316, ( both made by federal btw in the non mil spec cases!! Omg!!) Mk262 Mod 1 does, however it is not a NATO round, but loaded under contract and supplied current manufactured NATO spec cases. But hey what do I know?

 

[Panzer22]

Here you go. Non mil spec LC cases...

No doubt federal commercial cases have a reputation for being soft. That never was in question. What a NATO cross means was. LC and federal still produce to this day non NATO marked 55 gr M193 spec ammo for foreign sales. Totally different.

There are also bad batches of lapua 223, and recent Winchester 223 brass has gotten a bad name. However new production FC xx ( year) does indeed meet the specs and is decent brass.

 

[amlevin]

LC and federal still produce to this day non NATO marked 55 gr M193 spec ammo for foreign sales.

Could that be because NATO never adopted the M-193 round to begin with, thus no "NATO Cross"?

 

[Panzer22]

LC and federal still produce to this day non NATO marked 55 gr M193 spec ammo for foreign sales.

Could that be because NATO never adopted the M-193 round to begin with, thus no "NATO Cross"?

Exactly