Induction annealer
- Thread starter Raythemanroe
- Start date
Not to get into a pissing contest but----I have some idea of how the things work and did mention that my unit was not designed to heat brass cases -----I am a retired radar tech and radio engineer (what used to be the first class ticket--with marine endorsement) so am not completely ignorant---my concern with the annie is the low power (1000 watts if I am not mistaken)-- and now the effect of running the thing in spurts over a period of years--the maker of my tool did point out that I have been using mine since 2009---also heating nonferrous metals with a magnetic field certainly can be done, but not very efficiently.
When my tool is returned I am going to do a little experiment suggested to me by the owner's manual of my induction cooktop which recommends putting a steel slab on top of it if you don't care to throw out all your pots and pans in favor of steel cookware. I would think that a steel pin something--well--exactly like a Lee case trimmer pilot of the proper size would act in much the same way if in the caseneck when the field is present. If not, I'll be using mine to pop some dents out of my van's body, which is what it was designed to do. ---and continue to try to contact Fluxeon and ask if they have had an annie in operation for over a year--I'd like to find that out for sure before I spend 500.00---or---I'll bug my son to give me back my Ken Light double torch system..................
When my tool is returned I am going to do a little experiment suggested to me by the owner's manual of my induction cooktop which recommends putting a steel slab on top of it if you don't care to throw out all your pots and pans in favor of steel cookware. I would think that a steel pin something--well--exactly like a Lee case trimmer pilot of the proper size would act in much the same way if in the caseneck when the field is present. If not, I'll be using mine to pop some dents out of my van's body, which is what it was designed to do. ---and continue to try to contact Fluxeon and ask if they have had an annie in operation for over a year--I'd like to find that out for sure before I spend 500.00---or---I'll bug my son to give me back my Ken Light double torch system..................
AMAMNN,
Hope I spelled it correctly this time!
I think you are on the right path. Your Miniductor can do the job. I believe the Annie works with only 600 watts and it does it because of the flux concentration. With a standard solenoid coil work coil, the magnetic field has a 4-Pi geometry, or it radiates in all directions , and it is VERY inefficient. If you buy one of the Ferrite cores from Fluxeon and 2 or three orders of Litz wire, you will be on the correct path! If you check out some of Neon John's web stuff, you will see that they started with that core and actually broke off a corner to make a gap in the core large enough for a brass case, copper tube or a termination on a neon lamp. You could also make this gapped core with a diamond disk on a little hand grinder. Just make sure plenty of cooling water flows over it as you cut it!
Now, you have the same energy from the Miniductor but you can get a slightly different turns ration to the core with 4 or so turns of Litz wire and ALL the magnetic field flows thru the gap you made. This large improvement of efficiency is why they can heat a brass object so quickly with only 600 watts. Heck, they may even sell you one of the ANNIE toroidal work cores!
The idea of heating a slug of steel and using this heat source to heat the case would work, but the efficiency isn't there as well as taking longer to heat the case.
I, too, started as a Navy Aviation Electronics Tech and got a First phone with ships radar endorsement while I was stationed at Barbers Pt. flying on radar early warning planes. Then, I got out and got my BSEE
Hope I spelled it correctly this time!
I think you are on the right path. Your Miniductor can do the job. I believe the Annie works with only 600 watts and it does it because of the flux concentration. With a standard solenoid coil work coil, the magnetic field has a 4-Pi geometry, or it radiates in all directions , and it is VERY inefficient. If you buy one of the Ferrite cores from Fluxeon and 2 or three orders of Litz wire, you will be on the correct path! If you check out some of Neon John's web stuff, you will see that they started with that core and actually broke off a corner to make a gap in the core large enough for a brass case, copper tube or a termination on a neon lamp. You could also make this gapped core with a diamond disk on a little hand grinder. Just make sure plenty of cooling water flows over it as you cut it!
Now, you have the same energy from the Miniductor but you can get a slightly different turns ration to the core with 4 or so turns of Litz wire and ALL the magnetic field flows thru the gap you made. This large improvement of efficiency is why they can heat a brass object so quickly with only 600 watts. Heck, they may even sell you one of the ANNIE toroidal work cores!
The idea of heating a slug of steel and using this heat source to heat the case would work, but the efficiency isn't there as well as taking longer to heat the case.
I, too, started as a Navy Aviation Electronics Tech and got a First phone with ships radar endorsement while I was stationed at Barbers Pt. flying on radar early warning planes. Then, I got out and got my BSEE
Joe R
Gold $$ Contributor
I did not want to leave folks with the impression that the Fluxeon guys were ignoring me or not answering calls. I did get a call back and TT with them for a while. They seem like competent and sincere manufacturers of the best product they can make and are confident their machines have been tested thoroughly and will last a long time; they come with a one year warranty.
Theirs is a good looking professionally finished machine and I expect it will be a success. However, It has been on the market a matter of months and they admit that no production units have anything like a one year track record. I hate to buy the first run of any new item, especially electronics. So, I will try my little experiment which I have gotten some extra advice and encouragement from someone who has already done it with the desired results. My setup will not be a cool as the annie though 8)
Theirs is a good looking professionally finished machine and I expect it will be a success. However, It has been on the market a matter of months and they admit that no production units have anything like a one year track record. I hate to buy the first run of any new item, especially electronics. So, I will try my little experiment which I have gotten some extra advice and encouragement from someone who has already done it with the desired results. My setup will not be a cool as the annie though 8)
Kings X
Gold $$ Contributor
I have been working with Fluxeon for about three years on a flux concentrator annealer.
The first that I built one worked fine to heat brass. It was on a reloading press like a die. You put the brass in the shell holder. Raising the ram triggered the switch to start the timer. Neck turned red and switch timed out.
But the timer was too coarse. A half second was the difference between red hot or a very light red. When I changed timers I blew something. Had to send the unit back. Second unit wasn't powerful enough to get brass hot - only warm. Send it back again.
Since then I have been getting promises of the Annie. Same story last week - heading to you soon.
I would like to note that the title of this thread is "Induction Annealer". But the video is of a Flux Concentrator annealer. No coil to heat up and cool off and in an induction unit (like in the frozen bolt tool). The brass creates the " field" for the electrical current that heats the brass.
I have had faith (and $700+invested) in Fluxeon for three years already - a little while longer can't hurt.
The first that I built one worked fine to heat brass. It was on a reloading press like a die. You put the brass in the shell holder. Raising the ram triggered the switch to start the timer. Neck turned red and switch timed out.
But the timer was too coarse. A half second was the difference between red hot or a very light red. When I changed timers I blew something. Had to send the unit back. Second unit wasn't powerful enough to get brass hot - only warm. Send it back again.
Since then I have been getting promises of the Annie. Same story last week - heading to you soon.
I would like to note that the title of this thread is "Induction Annealer". But the video is of a Flux Concentrator annealer. No coil to heat up and cool off and in an induction unit (like in the frozen bolt tool). The brass creates the " field" for the electrical current that heats the brass.
I have had faith (and $700+invested) in Fluxeon for three years already - a little while longer can't hurt.
wwbrown said:
I also found the rmcybernetics link and have ordered the parts. I am only waiting on the resistors now. Hopefully I will have some time this weekend to play around with it.
LoganDon, check out the link to RM Cybernetics page. Thats where I got all my part information. Then just search online for the cheapest parts. Mouser.com and Ebay were the cheapest that I found.
I was able to get the induction heater put together last night. I heated up a piece of brass and a screwdriver tip. Then the MOSFETs got extremely hot and i shut her down. Maybe next week i will have more time to figure out why it got so hot.
I was able to get the induction heater put together last night. I heated up a piece of brass and a screwdriver tip. Then the MOSFETs got extremely hot and i shut her down. Maybe next week i will have more time to figure out why it got so hot.
I think you folks that are going to try building your own induction heaters are in for a bigger job than you thought!
I have purchased the circuit from England and another, cheaper one from Hong Kong and have blown a bunch of MOS devices since! I bought a batch of different rated devices and still had a hard time getting brass to heat up. I am using a fixed 24 Volt power supply to power it so that is a limitation in output. If you carefully go through the development of the Fluxeon products at Neon-John or at the Neon John blog, you will find a long and hard path. They found a lot of things that aren't obvious in the simplistic heaters you can buy or schematics you can build. Such as, IGBT devices work better than NMOS FETs and the switching in a simple circuit is not fast enough or stiff enough which causes too long a period of operation with a large voltage across the switch device and it over-heats and pukes! So, a gate driver circuit is needed. And on and on!
On their web site, they recommend buying their kit if you want to save some money. Or you could buy their circuit board and buy the components as Fluxeon has the schematics and parts list on line. But even then you will find some of the parts are not as cheap as you thought!
I have wasted the last year experimenting and I have re-learned most of what Fluxeon has learned. So, I look at the specialized ANNIE and it's neat, small package and reasonable price and decided my Wife is going to "give" me an ANNIE for my birthday in April!!
One must not forget, the price point of a product is not just the cost of the components, but the development and integration of all the parts in a nice box! I would rather spend my spare time loading bullets!
I have purchased the circuit from England and another, cheaper one from Hong Kong and have blown a bunch of MOS devices since! I bought a batch of different rated devices and still had a hard time getting brass to heat up. I am using a fixed 24 Volt power supply to power it so that is a limitation in output. If you carefully go through the development of the Fluxeon products at Neon-John or at the Neon John blog, you will find a long and hard path. They found a lot of things that aren't obvious in the simplistic heaters you can buy or schematics you can build. Such as, IGBT devices work better than NMOS FETs and the switching in a simple circuit is not fast enough or stiff enough which causes too long a period of operation with a large voltage across the switch device and it over-heats and pukes! So, a gate driver circuit is needed. And on and on!
On their web site, they recommend buying their kit if you want to save some money. Or you could buy their circuit board and buy the components as Fluxeon has the schematics and parts list on line. But even then you will find some of the parts are not as cheap as you thought!
I have wasted the last year experimenting and I have re-learned most of what Fluxeon has learned. So, I look at the specialized ANNIE and it's neat, small package and reasonable price and decided my Wife is going to "give" me an ANNIE for my birthday in April!!
One must not forget, the price point of a product is not just the cost of the components, but the development and integration of all the parts in a nice box! I would rather spend my spare time loading bullets!
Well that's not what I wanted to hear. I'll go check out the Neon's Glow Blog and see if I can find anything, but it looks like Normmatzen already did.
I talked to my neighbor last night. He is building an annealer with a turn table and a propane torch. I guess I'll just have to help him build it.
I talked to my neighbor last night. He is building an annealer with a turn table and a propane torch. I guess I'll just have to help him build it.
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