Indicator stems and bases

[X Count]

Hi everyone

I purchased a mitutoyo 1 micron test indicator with the intention of installing a long stem from an interapid. I went with the 1 micron metric indicator because looking at the ratios between original stem length vs interapid stem length the final resolution was actually better than using a .0001" test indicator retrofitted with a long stem like I know others do.

My problem is mitutoyo is now using metric threads on all their test indicator stems so they are no longer interchangeable with interapid.

I have gritters rods which work fine but I'd like to be able to direct indicate. Not just when dialing in a barrel but when checking runout at various points in the chamber during or after chambering.


Secondly I'm in the market for a new indicator base and stand. I have a few already and do like the articulated arm style but the cheap one I have has a terrible fine adjustment and more flex than I'd like. Ideally something sturdy with a good fine adjustment and a strong spring to support the find adjustment arm.

I've seen a few videos of the noga and the shares equivalent. Some of the noga options like interesting with the fine adjust at the base.

 

[tobnpr]

Suggest you contact Long Island Indicator on your question re: replacing the contact point length with one different than that for which the indicator was designed. This is above my pay grade- but I do know it's not just a linear equation of length vs resolution. These are precision instruments, and the internal mechanisms/springs are specifically designed for the intended contact points- or so I've been told.

Trying to dial in a barrel to less than half a tenth may be possible (if not exasperating) on the very top end blanks- but you've got manufacturing tolerances from most barrel manufacturers that far exceed one micron.
You'll spend hours trying to do something that is simply not achievable (and won't mean d*** at the target).

I don't own anything but Nogas, so take that for what it's worth. But again, forget about trying to "zero" a one-micron indicator, and it's meaningless anyway. This isn't about "measuring"- it's about relative movement of the indicator dial.

 

[Mulligan]

Okay,
I had to look up the size of a micron, just because I did not know.
Thought I would share.
Carry on

CW

 

[WSnyder]

I have only used Noga articulating stands and no experience with the import versions. I have several sizes and configurations. One has the base zero setup, the rest are on the head at the indicator.

My problem is mitutoyo is now using metric threads on all their test indicator stems so they are no longer interchangeable with interapid.

You didn't say which model Mit you have. Long Island Indicator says the Interapid contact point is metric and interchangeable on the popular 513-504 and similar pocket series indicators.

Mitutoyo Test indicator with 2.75" long contact point​

Since the Interapid point and the Mitutoyo point both have the same M1.7 thread, you can insert the Interapid point on your Mitutoyo Pocket Style indicators. However, the indicator will NOT read accurately. It you intend to use it only for centering then this makes no difference. Just ignore the graduations on the dial.

Interapid 2.75" long contact point with .080" carbide ball ... $21.50 order now

Take note that the Mitutoyo contact points are now epoxied in place. We don't know what possessed Mitutoyo to do this. It may take a bit of force on your part to unscrew the old point and since you will have some epoxy residue in the threads, you may also have to apply a little extra torque to get the Interapid contact point to screw in. Don't hesitate to use a small pair of jeweler's pliers for this purpose. Feel free to ask us to install the contact point on your new indicator.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Hard to beat a Noga, base adjust. And theres no such thing as dialing in a barrel too good. Any less than the best you can do is just that.

 

[LVLAaron]

Mitutoyo contact points are now epoxied in place.

Because they'll work loose. When they do, you'll pull your hair out trying to figure out what the hell is going on with your setup

 

[tobnpr]

And theres no such thing as dialing in a barrel too good. Any less than the best you can do is just that.

Trying to dial a barrel in to greater accuracy than the tolerances to which it's built is impossible- and you have no way of knowing when you've reached that point- just sayin'.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I agree. But good ones are held to .0001" or better. But knowing how to handle one with variation is key. You can still dial them in.

 

[GenePoole]

I made a long stem for a Brown & Sharpe using the Interapid 2.75 and it just took a little trim and re-thread with the right die. I understand Interapid and B&S are the same company now, but I don't know if either have changed any of their threads.

I now use the 0.00005 B&S with the 2.75 stem.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Noga!
I use a tenths long stem interapid and dial it in til needle sweep is about a line width on the dial.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Noga is the only base to have

 

[6MMsteve]

View attachment 1334572

Okay,
I had to look up the size of a micron, just because I did not know.
Thought I would share.
Carry on

CW

yep .0002 you cannot see light through the jaw of a caliper but it's still .0002 I think lol

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Covid is 3 microns and mask openings are 9 micron just for a size comparison. Ive never seen a virus to get an idea of the true size

 

[X Count]

Suggest you contact Long Island Indicator on your question re: replacing the contact point length with one different than that for which the indicator was designed. This is above my pay grade- but I do know it's not just a linear equation of length vs resolution. These are precision instruments, and the internal mechanisms/springs are specifically designed for the intended contact points- or so I've been told.

Trying to dial in a barrel to less than half a tenth may be possible (if not exasperating) on the very top end blanks- but you've got manufacturing tolerances from most barrel manufacturers that far exceed one micron.
You'll spend hours trying to do something that is simply not achievable (and won't mean d*** at the target).

I don't own anything but Nogas, so take that for what it's worth. But again, forget about trying to "zero" a one-micron indicator, and it's meaningless anyway. This isn't about "measuring"- it's about relative movement of the indicator dial.

The intention isn't to dial a barrel in to 1 micron. The intention is to have an indicator that when installed with an extended stem still provides usable resolution. Guess most would say direct indicating at the throat to .0005 or better is the goal.

From memory I have a 513-401-10E and went with that instead of the pocket style because they both ended up with similar resolution BUT the 513-401-10E has a bigger face / easier to read / possible ability to see movement of the needle withing the graduation easier.

 

[X Count]

Thanks for all the extremely helpful replies guys!

WSnyder I'll get in touch with long island and see what they say. They probably have better info than some other sources I've seen. If I can get something to screw straight in Ill be very happy!

For the others that have recommended noga. How to you find the rigidity of the type with base adjustment vs head adjustment? Ideally I'd like to be able to use the same stand with the small test indicator for barrel work but also with a standard dial indicator for general lathe work. Obviously they are heavier with stiffer springs on the plunger stem.

 

[DaveTooley]

Thanks for all the extremely helpful replies guys!

WSnyder I'll get in touch with long island and see what they say. They probably have better info than some other sources I've seen. If I can get something to screw straight in Ill be very happy!

For the others that have recommended noga. How to you find the rigidity of the type with base adjustment vs head adjustment? Ideally I'd like to be able to use the same stand with the small test indicator for barrel work but also with a standard dial indicator for general lathe work. Obviously they are heavier with stiffer springs on the plunger stem.

Mount your test indicator on your tool post. Much easier to maneuver into a barrel. That frees up the Noga.

 

[akajun]

The points on my mits are interchangable with my Interapid. My issue with Interapids are the dam small diameter stem to hold them. No mater how many bushings I make I never can find them when I need them.
For indicating inside a barrel I modified a cheap indicator holder using just the one post on the magnet.
I make a custom holder which holds the indicator in a straight line/90* to the bed and is easier to adjust and make sure the long stem goes straight in the bore.
However all I use for anything else is NOGA. The fine adjust on me arm for dial indicators and the fine adjust on the base for test indicators and .0001 resolution stuff

 

[Doug Beach]

I use an Interapid 312b-3, with a long indicating stem. In testing it against my DRO, each division is roughly .0004”, with the long stem attached. I hold the indicator by its mounting stem, in my tail stock chuck, which makes it very easy to move in and out of the barrel.

 

[WSnyder]

For the others that have recommended noga. How to you find the rigidity of the type with base adjustment vs head adjustment? Ideally I'd like to be able to use the same stand with the small test indicator for barrel work but also with a standard dial indicator for general lathe work. Obviously they are heavier with stiffer springs on the plunger stem.

Rigidity is fine and I’d say no different with either adjustment type. You can actually buy them with both adjustment types on the same stand if you want. They work fine for either type indicator and the heads are setup for both. Be advised the heads come in two standards on the base adjust models. One head is euro and the other is US. Euro is 8mm and 1/4” dovetail, US is 3/8” and 1/4” dovetail. You can buy the clamps separately so you can swap them out if needed. On the top adjust the heads are setup for 6mm, 8mm, 3/8" stems and 1/4" dovetail.

Edit: Once I got out in the shop I realized the top adjust models were setup for 6mm, 8mm, 3/8" stems and 1/4" dovetail.

Standard Clamp 3/8" - FA1120

b,

www.noga.com

Standard Clamp 8mm - FA1100

b,

www.noga.com

Zinc Cast fine adjustment - FA1500

b,

www.noga.com

 

[Judd]

The Noga guys are right. I bought a Shars since I was ordering some boring bars…it’s not even in the same league as the Noga.