Indexing a rifle barrel...

[butchlambert]

Savageperson,
If you will look and study a Sunnen Hone you will see that it uniforms the hole and smooths the tooling marks.. It certainly doesn't straighten the hole. They have been in the business since the 1920s. I've personally used them in both automotive and the machine shop since the early 1960s.

 

[savagedasher]

Savageperson,
If you will look and study a Sunnen Hone you will see that it uniforms the hole and smooths the tooling marks.. It certainly doesn't straighten the hole. They have been in the business since the 1920s. I've personally used them in both automotive and the machine shop since the early 1960s.

How do you straighten cam holes or main bearings in the block .
Sunnen hone Straighten the bore Sunnen hone Wrist pinhole in Pistons Sunnen hone.
Larry

 

[therifler]

savage guy i am with butch. i have used them in the automotive machine trade since 1969. the only way to straighten the hole is bore first then hone to size .cam holes generally not a problem but if need be line boring. this is also done on the mains . mike

 

[butchlambert]

Savage guy, yes Sunnen make tooling to align bore cam journals and main bearings. If you peruse their website, since you are not in the machine shop, you will see their honing machines allow you to install cutters in their honing machines to do this.

From their website: For Minimum stock removal, usually less than .003" (.076 mm) off the caps compared to as much as .010" (.254 mm) with boring

This is not claiming to align hone, just sizing for less than a .003 total metal removal.

 

[savagedasher]

Savage guy, yes Sunnen make tooling to align bore cam journals and main bearings. If you peruse their website, since you are not in the machine shop, you will see their honing machines allow you to install cutters in their honing machines to do this.

Sunnen honeing only does honeing I never have seen a cutter. Years back they mite of made boring bars .
Back to the barrels the last 2 I have seen off of true bore the run out wa .008 and the other was..002 in 31 " first time I have ever seen a barrel that straight let alone two in a row.. When you put them up to a light and rotated the barrel the light rings never moved.
For ever barrel were straighten by using light rings. Does the company I got the barrel from use sunnen honeing .I never ask . But two in a row Seems strange to me. But I do know a couple of barrel makers have got them. They could be one. Larry

 

[butchlambert]

A crooked barrel that shoots great A hone won't fix this.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/134395843@N08/25677522016/

 

[butchlambert]

Sunnen honeing only does honeing I never have seen a cutter. Years back they mite of made boring bars .
Back to the barrels the last 2 I have seen off of true bore the run out wa .008 and the other was..002 in 31 " first time I have ever seen a barrel that straight let alone two in a row.. When you put them up to a light and rotated the barrel the light rings never moved.
For ever barrel were straighten by using light rings. Does the company I got the barrel from use sunnen honeing .I never ask . But two in a row Seems strange to me. But I do know a couple of barrel makers have got them. They could be one. Larry

All you have to do is go to their website. They offer cutters to replace their stones to align bore the mains and cam journals Then you can hone the bores. It is on their web site as you have never worked or used the Sunnen in either a barrel shop or a machine shop. Not blaming you and I certainly know the hones are valuable for what they are designed for.

 

[Riesel]

OK, so we are going to "index" this barrel. Does that mean we are going to put that barrel in the headstock with inboard and outboard spiders and center the outside of the barrel to run true, insert a BORE indicator rod and mark the barrel when the rod points upward, and do the same on the other end of the barrel. After we take the barrel out of the headstock and see that the two marks that we indicated on the barrel are not in line..............
Oh My, What now?

 

[savagedasher]

All you have to do is go to their website. They offer cutters to replace their stones to align bore the mains and cam journals Then you can hone the bores. It is on their web site as you have never worked or used the Sunnen in either a barrel shop or a machine shop. Not blaming you and I certainly know the hones are valuable for what they are designed for.

OK, so we are going to "index" this barrel. Does that mean we are going to put that barrel in the headstock with inboard and outboard spiders and center the outside of the barrel to run true, insert a BORE indicator rod and mark the barrel when the rod points upward, and do the same on the other end of the barrel. After we take the barrel out of the headstock and see that the two marks that we indicated on the barrel are not in line..............
Oh My, What now?

Definately not that way .
The outside of a barrel has nothing to do with timing . You must time the barrel timing with the bore . Go to Gordy Gritters site . It will gives general idea . Larry

 

[butchlambert]

You might go to the BR.com forums and search Gene Beggs method of indexing without doing additional machine work. Gene has an underground shooting facility.
I would like to know how many World Records or championships have been done with Gordy's method.

 

[savagedasher]

You might go to the BR.com forums and search Gene Beggs method of indexing without doing additional machine work. Gene has an underground shooting facility.
I would like to know how many World Records or championships have been done with Gordy's method.

You might go to the BR.com forums and search Gene Beggs method of indexing without doing additional machine work. Gene has an underground shooting facility.
I would like to know how many World Records or championships have been done with Gordy's method.

Best thing to do is check with Gordy. But I feel many records have ben set with similar ways My feeling their is only one record .
But what method is being used by the top shooters in the the class they are shooting in. Larry

 

[butchlambert]

I think you will find most BR shooters either chamber them in the steady or in the headstock indicating the bore at each end.

 

[savagedasher]

I think you will find most BR shooters either chamber them in the steady or in the headstock indicating the bore at each end.

I can understand that they don't care where the bullet hits the just want them to all be in a small one hole . So timing means nothing. Larry

 

[eww1350]

My take on the "Gritters" method is to indicate the first 2-3 inches of the bore true to the point where the bullet engages the rifling..and let the muzzle run-out where it may, and then mark the 12 o'clock position to index to. What will that have to do with where the bullet exits the muzzle 20+ inches a way.?? If the bore changes directions from that first 2+ inches to the muzzle then what is the purpose.??

 

[BoydAllen]

 

[Riesel]

I can understand that they don't care where the bullet hits the just want them to all be in a small one hole . So timing means nothing. Larry

My thoughts exactly

 

[David Sengelaub]

Sunnen honeing only does honeing I never have seen a cutter. Years back they mite of made boring bars .
Back to the barrels the last 2 I have seen off of true bore the run out wa .008 and the other was..002 in 31 " first time I have ever seen a barrel that straight let alone two in a row.. When you put them up to a light and rotated the barrel the light rings never moved.
For ever barrel were straighten by using light rings. Does the company I got the barrel from use sunnen honeing .I never ask . But two in a row Seems strange to me. But I do know a couple of barrel makers have got them. They could be one. Larry

Sunnen does make cutters for the main bores on engine block's but that's a different animal than a gun barrel. The hone will will make a gun barrel bore diameter within .0001" end to end. It will not do much to remove bow or bend that is being talked about on this thread. The hone also does other things that can improve the quality of a rifle barrel.

 

[hpshooter]

"Sunnen honeing only does honeing I never have seen a cutter."

Go to the Sunnen web site or goggle Sunnen PLB 100 line boring attachment and or Sunnen PLB 1200 cam boring attachment and reevaluate your position on what Sunnen does or doesn't make.

 

[DJ111]

There are other ways of indicating barrels in without having to index them in and have them allways hit within inches no matter what barrel you screw on. If barrels are that far off send them back.....

 

[BoydAllen]

All this conjecture and opinion, and so little reference to testing. Here is a piece about a clever friend of mine who has done some actual testing in a tunnel.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/10/beggs-devises-indexing-system-for-centerfire-barrels/