IMR 8208 XBR in .308?
- Thread starter DRNewcomb
- Start date
Works fine. I used it for three, maybe four seasons with 2155's, 2156's then Berger's 155.5 Fullbore bullets (@ 0.020" off lands, 2011 Fullbore chamber) in 1:13 and 1:12 twist 29" & 30" barrels. In Lapua's Palma brass & Wolf/Tula SRM primers (BR-4's now since the Russians aren't available anymore) I was seeing 3,025 fps SD </= 8 with 45.0 grains.
Work up though, since your equipment & conditions may not be like mine. This stuff is great but easy to go overboard with if you make unwarranted assumptions....
Work up though, since your equipment & conditions may not be like mine. This stuff is great but easy to go overboard with if you make unwarranted assumptions....
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I loved using IMR-8208 with the Berger 155.5 Fullbore when I first started shooting Ftr. Shot it out of a 30” 1:12 barrel at 3065 fps. Load was 45.1 of 8208 with Lapua brass and BR-2 primers. Also used it with the Berger 185 juggernauts. At 42.5 I was getting 2830 FPS. Both like .015-.020 jump. Both loads had single digit ES.
Out of a 30 inch 1:12 barrel using Lapua brass and large rifle primers I found a low node at 43.5gr and a high node at 44.6 gr.
With the Palma brass and small primers I am at 44.8gr. went up to 45.1 but saw no improvement so backed off.
Martin
I should add - using 155.5 Berger FB's.
Well, I sure don't have the right dope on this powder, yet. I loaded up 25 rounds, one grain apart from min to max recommended for the Sierra 155s and ran them through the OCW drill. Velocities were all over the map and the groups were lousy. Unfortunately, I didn't also have a control group of my regular Varget loads to compare with. I suspect it doesn't like the gentle ignition of RWS small rifle primers in the .308 Palma cases. Does anyone have any observations on primers that work well with this powder or if it might be sensitive to mild ignition?
Like others, I have had good results with it alongside the 155.5 Berger, in my case 46.4gn in a fairly long freebore chamber cut for the 185gn Juggernaut. That gave exactly 3,050 fps in UK temperatures that only rarely exceed 25-deg C and most of the time are under 20-degrees (68F). (32-inch barrel Broughton.)
At Raton in 2013 for the US F Nationals / FCWC with locally supplied pre-ordered 8208 that load gave exactly 3,100 fps in temperatures in the first week of mid 90s in the shade. Despite the pressure / velocity increase, my UK load continued to give the best results and there were no problems throughout the two weeks shooting - I'm still using the brass in fact four years on.
That is with prepped Lapua Palma brass and I've used the BR4 with this combination throughout as well as my other primary load of the 168gn Hybrid and Reload Swiss RS52 at 2,960 fps MV. ES values with the 155.5s were in the teens and SDs mid single figures. Today, with ~3,000 rounds down the barrel, the mean MV has dropped to 3,027 fps in UK temperatures ~15-deg C (high 50s / 60F) and the rifle will still produce 5-shot 0.2-035" groups off the bench at 100 yards.
Back in 2013, I was the only GB FTR team member using the powder, H4895 and more so VarGet being the norm with the 155.5gn Berger that all team members were mandated to shoot, people looking for 3,100 fps plus in GB conditions. Speaking to Monte and Darrel of the US FTR team, they'd tried 8208, got good precision but again rejected it as giving insufficiently high MVs, H4895 and particularly VarGet being superior, same reason as my other team members using this powder. By this time the US team (and every other team to for that matter) was loading the 185 Juggernaut anyway, which is what we should have been shooting too. 8208 is definitely on the fast burning side for this bullet weight. QuickLOAD suggests the load and its 3,100 fps MV under Raton conditions was running at over 68,000 psi PMax, so be warned!
Since that time, GB FTR shooters have got 155s up to 3,140 - 3,200 fps MVs with good precision and consistency in Palma brass, the F205M primer being the favourite, so my old 8208 load is shall we say jaded, but it suits me fine and is obviously giving good barrel life.
There will be a major shake-up here in 308 powders (and for everything else too of course) thanks to new EU health and safety regulations that come into effect on 1st June next year. All Hodgdon / IMR ADI manufactured extruded powders (and nearly all St Marks Powder Co. 'spherical' grades) including H4895, VarGet, and 8208 will be banned from further importation to any EU country as containing 'unsafe' or 'environmentally damaging' ingredients. So we will be using Nitrochemie (Reload Swiss and a few Alliant grades); Vihtavuori; Alliant (all made in Sweden or Switzerland) powders plus a minority using Belgian manufactured Ramshot ball powders (when available) or Czech Lovex powders.
I have done a review of 16 SR primers in 308 Palma brass published in three parts in Target Shooter online magazine. Parts 1 and 2 are 'live', part 3 (including results tables) is with the editor and should be 'up' soon.
http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=2613
At Raton in 2013 for the US F Nationals / FCWC with locally supplied pre-ordered 8208 that load gave exactly 3,100 fps in temperatures in the first week of mid 90s in the shade. Despite the pressure / velocity increase, my UK load continued to give the best results and there were no problems throughout the two weeks shooting - I'm still using the brass in fact four years on.
That is with prepped Lapua Palma brass and I've used the BR4 with this combination throughout as well as my other primary load of the 168gn Hybrid and Reload Swiss RS52 at 2,960 fps MV. ES values with the 155.5s were in the teens and SDs mid single figures. Today, with ~3,000 rounds down the barrel, the mean MV has dropped to 3,027 fps in UK temperatures ~15-deg C (high 50s / 60F) and the rifle will still produce 5-shot 0.2-035" groups off the bench at 100 yards.
Back in 2013, I was the only GB FTR team member using the powder, H4895 and more so VarGet being the norm with the 155.5gn Berger that all team members were mandated to shoot, people looking for 3,100 fps plus in GB conditions. Speaking to Monte and Darrel of the US FTR team, they'd tried 8208, got good precision but again rejected it as giving insufficiently high MVs, H4895 and particularly VarGet being superior, same reason as my other team members using this powder. By this time the US team (and every other team to for that matter) was loading the 185 Juggernaut anyway, which is what we should have been shooting too. 8208 is definitely on the fast burning side for this bullet weight. QuickLOAD suggests the load and its 3,100 fps MV under Raton conditions was running at over 68,000 psi PMax, so be warned!
Since that time, GB FTR shooters have got 155s up to 3,140 - 3,200 fps MVs with good precision and consistency in Palma brass, the F205M primer being the favourite, so my old 8208 load is shall we say jaded, but it suits me fine and is obviously giving good barrel life.
There will be a major shake-up here in 308 powders (and for everything else too of course) thanks to new EU health and safety regulations that come into effect on 1st June next year. All Hodgdon / IMR ADI manufactured extruded powders (and nearly all St Marks Powder Co. 'spherical' grades) including H4895, VarGet, and 8208 will be banned from further importation to any EU country as containing 'unsafe' or 'environmentally damaging' ingredients. So we will be using Nitrochemie (Reload Swiss and a few Alliant grades); Vihtavuori; Alliant (all made in Sweden or Switzerland) powders plus a minority using Belgian manufactured Ramshot ball powders (when available) or Czech Lovex powders.
I have done a review of 16 SR primers in 308 Palma brass published in three parts in Target Shooter online magazine. Parts 1 and 2 are 'live', part 3 (including results tables) is with the editor and should be 'up' soon.
http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=2613
my god, government run amok. thought you guys Brexit'd to get away from that bullshit. very sad. one reason we elected Trump
swadiver, sadly we're not out yet, nor will be for a couple of years. As the UK is the primary entry point to Europe for powders that the Hodgdon Powder Co. distribute (Hodgdon, IMR, and Winchester brands) Brexit won't make any difference anyway as much of the product is re-exported into EU countries from us.
In my list of things we'll still have, I should have included some IMR powders - definitely five new pistol / revolver grades and the four 'Enduron' rifle grades - but there is lingering confusion over the 'legacy' former Dupont Industries numbers such as 3031 and 4064.
It's not just propellants - it's a 10 year EU project called 'REACH' That is an acronym for
Regulation (EC) 1907/2006 concerning the Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation, and restriction of CHemicals
and affects any chemical or product containing chemicals made in the EU or imported into it of 1 metric tonne or greater weight per annum.
Think of all the things with chemicals - cleaners, detergents, pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, fertilisers, products used in industry, ingredients for inert plastic goods, paints, thinners, coatings, glues - the list is vast! A great bureaucracy has been set up to identify and implement the necessary changes and already huge numbers of products no longer work as well as they used to, or in some cases don't seem to work at all in their 'safe' reformulated forms. Garden bug killers don't kill anything anymore for instance, or maybe just give the greenfly a headache. The latest proposal is to ban all products with the systemic weedkiller Glysophate in them - the most widely used herbicide in the western world - on the basis of a single study that suggested there might be a risk to human health, the only such study out of many into this product.
Somewhere in all the verbiage mentioned in REACH documents another motive other than playing nanny to EU citizens is listed - it makes many chemical products manufactured abroad in non EU countries illegal, or requiring expensive modification and/or product / market variations. Backdoor protectionism in other words !
In my list of things we'll still have, I should have included some IMR powders - definitely five new pistol / revolver grades and the four 'Enduron' rifle grades - but there is lingering confusion over the 'legacy' former Dupont Industries numbers such as 3031 and 4064.
It's not just propellants - it's a 10 year EU project called 'REACH' That is an acronym for
Regulation (EC) 1907/2006 concerning the Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation, and restriction of CHemicals
and affects any chemical or product containing chemicals made in the EU or imported into it of 1 metric tonne or greater weight per annum.
Think of all the things with chemicals - cleaners, detergents, pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, fertilisers, products used in industry, ingredients for inert plastic goods, paints, thinners, coatings, glues - the list is vast! A great bureaucracy has been set up to identify and implement the necessary changes and already huge numbers of products no longer work as well as they used to, or in some cases don't seem to work at all in their 'safe' reformulated forms. Garden bug killers don't kill anything anymore for instance, or maybe just give the greenfly a headache. The latest proposal is to ban all products with the systemic weedkiller Glysophate in them - the most widely used herbicide in the western world - on the basis of a single study that suggested there might be a risk to human health, the only such study out of many into this product.
Somewhere in all the verbiage mentioned in REACH documents another motive other than playing nanny to EU citizens is listed - it makes many chemical products manufactured abroad in non EU countries illegal, or requiring expensive modification and/or product / market variations. Backdoor protectionism in other words !
Wow. Great articles. Tons of info that ties a lot of the bits and pieces one gets in the forums together at one source. Answers many questions... solves many 'mysteries'! is this link posted anywhere else on forum?
the Lunatics are running the asylum it seems. good luck going forward. i hope we can avoid a similar fate here
I use 8208 for rodent .20P, .204R & .22-.250 light bullets before I re-barreled the .22-.250 with a faster twist to make it sort of like a .243. Having some 8208 I loaded some 125 Hornady SST's in my 1-10 twist .308 and they worked real good, at least to 300 yards. I got a good deal on Alliant 2000 powder (cheap & available) and I am using that now in my .308's (2) with 155 Hornady Amax & hpbt.
To my best knowledge, stick type extruded powders appear to be not made in the USA any more - at least that is my impression.
To my best knowledge, stick type extruded powders appear to be not made in the USA any more - at least that is my impression.
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