IMR 4451

[DataGuy]

Using IMR 4451 for my 6.5 Creed.

Currently struggling with load accuracy. I am not super OCD about my groups as I primarily plink/prs with an ocassional F-class, but I have noticed all my 4451 loads opening up. I am using up a supply I bought over the COVID crunch which is why I didn't continue with my old load. (H4350).

So lesson 1: Don't try to be cheap

Across 3 rifles, (spitballing) gone from shooting sub 0.5 to 0.8-1MOA at 100. My 1000 yard data is crazy. Extreme Vertical spread that cannot be accounted for by velocity. But Chrono data is also all over the place. I'm not a super reloader but I was 10-15 fps Std Dev over 20 shots with 4350 (trending down). 4451 is 20+ and its not fliers, its all over the place velocity wise.

Has the powder sat too long? Is it just "one of those things" aka beleive the bullet, load sucks do something else.

What changed? Powder and powder throw. Went from manual balance/throw/trickle to autotrickler with electronic scale (FX120?). I myself switched from RH to LH due to eyesight problems and dropped to 6GT and actually felt I was improving last 12 months. Got a dedicated LH rifle and problems started to occur. But those problems now occur in my RH rifles that shot fine with H4350. Bullet was 140 ELD-M (Hornady). I also for f-class switched to 140 Bergers, but that combo (140 Berger + 4451) is declined accuracy in a rifle I knew hammered well for me. I first thought it was my new rifle, but confirmed the load is not performing in others.

How much can a powder effect accuracy and is it worth investigating or should I just scrap it and move back to what works.

 

[ben-o]

I never tried 4451, but other enduron powders (4166) have been known to go bad out of the blue. My experience was first poor accuracy, then hang fires, then the whole can off-gassing acrid fumes. Hard to say if this is your problem, but I’d keep an eye on it.

 

[CJ6]

Pour a little powder on a white paper towel or kleenex and give it a slight rub. If you're getting anything besides black the powder is going bad.

 

[358WCF]

Using IMR 4451 for my 6.5 Creed.

Currently struggling with load accuracy. I am not super OCD about my groups as I primarily plink/prs with an ocassional F-class, but I have noticed all my 4451 loads opening up. I am using up a supply I bought over the COVID crunch which is why I didn't continue with my old load. (H4350).

Did you ever have a good, proven 4451 load that recently stopped shooting well?

I got some 4451 for the same reason as you did & it just sits in the closet. Pressured out at lower velocity than my 4530 loads & it only shot sub MOA in one rifle, but RL23 is much better in that one. Not impressed at all. I sniff it from time to time, but it wont be missed if it turns stinky & gets burnt up out back. Certainly wont be buying more if it ever comes back.

 

[DataGuy]

Did you ever have a good, proven 4451 load that recently stopped shooting well?

I got some 4451 for the same reason as you did & it just sits in the closet. Pressured out at lower velocity than my 4530 loads & it only shot sub MOA in one rifle, but RL23 is much better in that one. Not impressed at all. I sniff it from time to time, but it wont be missed if it turns stinky & gets burnt up out back. Certainly wont be buying more if it ever comes back.

No i was using up my stock since 4451 got discontunued. Cheap-o thinking, well 4451 is a substitute for H4350 and you have a bunch just sitting there. You know, why buy new powder when you have plenty old powder.

Sounds like I may have a very green lawn this year

 

[243winxb]

I think the Potassium sulfate, a decoppering agent, fouled the barrel sooner. Carbon?
Made it harder to clean, compared to single base IMR.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

It’s a double based powder and could get a little pressure on the hot side. I’m in the same boat about using some up. I’m only running 40.4 behind a 140 bullet.

 

[Evlshnngns]

My last outing at 1k wasn't spectacular with 4451...now you've got me wondering.

 

[SeabeeKen]

It’s a double based powder and could get a little pressure on the hot side. I’m in the same boat about using some up. I’m only running 40.4 behind a 140 bullet.

I agree. The enduron powders had a habit of sneaking up on you. One second no pressure signs then wham, high pressure. Their best accuracy seemed to be just before pressure signs.
My rifles loved the 4166 powder, single digit ES, .1-.5" groups. I was so angry with Hodgdon for dropping it, I completely abandoned their powders except for Ramshot. I've heard a number of stories of 4166 going bad quickly but my son says his is still good

 

[SKWERLZ]

I ran quite a lot of 4451 in my 260, one of my favorite powders for it.

 

[Steve Donlon]

This is 4451 at 500 yards. 41.7grs.. top bullets are 130gr. Berger OTM and the bottom group are 130 Hornady ELDM bullets in a 6.5 Creedmoor with the same load. I live on Az. and it is very dry and I keep my powder in a stable environment. I don't know if that helps.

 

[Steve Donlon]

I think the Potassium sulfate, a decoppering agent, fouled the barrel sooner. Carbon?
Made it harder to clean, compared to single base IMR.

It's makes it more dirty but it's soft carbon and it comes out easy compared to RL16 hard carbon. I have tried to shoot 4451 first the switch to RL16 powder during the same shooting session and it seems like it might have helped with the RL 16 build up, but have not tried it enough to be sure.

 

[lgwatson]

Using IMR 4451 for my 6.5 Creed.

Currently struggling with load accuracy. I am not super OCD about my groups as I primarily plink/prs with an ocassional F-class, but I have noticed all my 4451 loads opening up. I am using up a supply I bought over the COVID crunch which is why I didn't continue with my old load. (H4350).

So lesson 1: Don't try to be cheap

Across 3 rifles, (spitballing) gone from shooting sub 0.5 to 0.8-1MOA at 100. My 1000 yard data is crazy. Extreme Vertical spread that cannot be accounted for by velocity. But Chrono data is also all over the place. I'm not a super reloader but I was 10-15 fps Std Dev over 20 shots with 4350 (trending down). 4451 is 20+ and its not fliers, its all over the place velocity wise.

Has the powder sat too long? Is it just "one of those things" aka beleive the bullet, load sucks do something else.

What changed? Powder and powder throw. Went from manual balance/throw/trickle to autotrickler with electronic scale (FX120?). I myself switched from RH to LH due to eyesight problems and dropped to 6GT and actually felt I was improving last 12 months. Got a dedicated LH rifle and problems started to occur. But those problems now occur in my RH rifles that shot fine with H4350. Bullet was 140 ELD-M (Hornady). I also for f-class switched to 140 Bergers, but that combo (140 Berger + 4451) is declined accuracy in a rifle I knew hammered well for me. I first thought it was my new rifle, but confirmed the load is not performing in others.

How much can a powder effect accuracy and is it worth investigating or should I just scrap it and move back to what works.

I used it in a 6x47 Lapua with 105 Precision Ballistics and Lapua 105 VLD hunting bullets and had super tight 100 yard groups and good results at longer ranges. Barrel cleaning seemed pretty easy.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

I used it in a 6x47 Lapua with 105 Precision Ballistics and Lapua 105 VLD hunting bullets and had super tight 100 yard groups and good results at longer ranges. Barrel cleaning seemed pretty easy.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1...iNrvdXnrndVQtdCkXW5qa-96LTYL2D6ifi&pid=354701
This Lyman handbook that came out several years ago had a lot of praise for the 4451 in your caliber and other's.