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Important Note about 6mm BR Lapua Brass:

Area51

Important Note about 6mm BR Lapua Brass: From Lapua Direct
Brass is headstamped 6MM Norma BR to meet European CIP requirements but the case dimensions are IDENTICAL to the 6mm BR Remington. This may cause confusion as some people understand the cartridge cases are different in dimensions. In fact it is the chamber dimensions, not the cartridge dimensions that changed. 6mm BR and 6mm BR Norma use the same case specifications however the difference between the two is the cartridge overall length specification with the BR Norma utilizing a longer heavier bullet.
This is the Lapua official statement, unedited, in its pure form for your information.
Remington has a Remington only chamber design, sold Remington brass that fit that chamber that they no longer make.
The Norma chamber is the up dated, better in all ways, non Remington scam version of the 6BR.
 
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Based on pretty solid experience of a friend, I disagree. First of all is Remington even making 6BR brass? Some years back a friend dealt with this very issue. The diameter at the base is different, at least it was then. The Lapua/Norma was slightly larger, enough so that after trying to get by by having his chamber opened up at the back, he ended up having it recut with a reamer designed for the larger diameter of the Lapua and Norma brass. In his case the neck of the original Remington spec' chamber was quite a bit shorter. Prior to switching to Lapua brass he shot Remington in that barrel. I have my first 6BR brass on its way. Do any of you have an unfired Remington case that you could send me. We will settle this once and for all....this time. I say this time because it has come up from time to time, but this is the first time that anyone has ever said that they have the same dimensions. All the other times the information has been different.
 
this is the important part.
6mm br norma is DESIGNED with a longer THROAT for heavier bullets.
chamber twist difference
 
From the 6BR essay elsewhere here (italicized, bold text my contribution:

“The 6mm BR that is most commonly used today is also called 6mm Norma BR, “6BR Norma”, or just plain “6BR”. Norma started with the 6mm Remington Benchrest and increased the base dimension slightly. But the official SAMMI cartridge OAL is the same: 1.560″. (However Remington did originally produce brass at 1.520″ OAL and some older chambers have been cut to a shorter length.) Though Norma standardized the round, most people shoot Lapua brass, because of its superior quality and uniformity, not to mention lower cost. The case capacity of Lapua brass is about 38-39.5 grains of H20, after fire-forming. The exact capacity depends on your gun’s chamber and the brass lot.”

retired said:
this is the important part: 6mm br norma is DESIGNED with a longer THROAT for heavier bullets.
chamber twist difference
Click to expand...

Chambers don’t have twist specs, save those for rifle bores. There’s enough confusion over this cartridge now, we don’t need it to be made worse....
 
spclark said:
From the 6BR essay elsewhere here (italicized, bold text my contribution:

“The 6mm BR that is most commonly used today is also called 6mm Norma BR, “6BR Norma”, or just plain “6BR”. Norma started with the 6mm Remington Benchrest and increased the base dimension slightly. But the official SAMMI cartridge OAL is the same: 1.560″. (However Remington did originally produce brass at 1.520″ OAL and some older chambers have been cut to a shorter length.) Though Norma standardized the round, most people shoot Lapua brass, because of its superior quality and uniformity, not to mention lower cost. The case capacity of Lapua brass is about 38-39.5 grains of H20, after fire-forming. The exact capacity depends on your gun’s chamber and the brass lot.”



Chambers don’t have twist specs, save those for rifle bores. There’s enough confusion over this cartridge now, we don’t need it to be made worse....
Click to expand...
yes that is
chamber
twist
difference
two characteristics different than a 6br rem
 
20180323_150234-1.jpg
Area51 said:
Important Note about 6mm BR Lapua Brass: From Lapua Direct
Brass is headstamped 6MM Norma BR to meet European CIP requirements but the case dimensions are IDENTICAL to the 6mm BR Remington. This may cause confusion as some people understand the cartridge cases are different in dimensions. In fact it is the chamber dimensions, not the cartridge dimensions that changed. 6mm BR and 6mm BR Norma use the same case specifications however the difference between the two is the cartridge overall length specification with the BR Norma utilizing a longer heavier bullet.
This is the Lapua official statement, unedited, in its pure form for your information.
Remington has a Remington only chamber design, sold Remington brass that fit that chamber that they no longer make.
The Norma chamber is the up dated, better in all ways, non Remington scam version of the 6BR.
Click to expand...
Well sir I truly hope what you said is not correct because I am going to show you a pic of 6mmbr Remington brass if you chamber for a 6mmbr variant with current reamer we shoot in competition there will be overworked brass.20180323_124457-1.jpgPS the 6mmbr Remington brass is 1.555 long the 6mmbr lapua is 1.556 long
 
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I would have to agree with Boyd I have some new Rem 7mmbr brass.
The length is 1.510 compared to Lapua at 1.556.
The base is .464 versus .469 on Lapua
 
This whole issue goes way back, and I think that that is the cause of some of the differences. Remington first offered a 40X in the caliber in 1978 but didn't offer ammunition until 1988. Norma introduced their version in 1996. The Wikipedia article I read said that the dimensions were similar and the throat was longer , but it did not list the earlier dimensions. Some time after that Lapua began making it to the Norma spec'. Perhaps Kevin can tell us when. It was the Norma brass that first had the larger base dimension and longer neck. I am confining my remarks to the case part of the chamber because I don't know about the different throat spec's. Since I believe that it has been some time since Remington offered the brass and the custom shop still offers that chambering it is only reasonable to assume that at some point they changed to Norma spec' chambers, which would explain how some could have 40Xs that take the Norma or Lapua brass without modification. If your read this article about the 7BR you will see that it was based on necking up the Remington 6BR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7mm_BR_Remington
Take careful note of the case length listed. This is one of the only references that I could find to point out the difference in length of the older design and the newer one. It is listed as 1.520 (as is the .22 BR in another Wikipedia article) rather than the current 1.560. The shorter length would correspond to my memory of my friend's situation. His barrel was not factory but by a highly respected benchrest gunsmith at a time when the Remington brass was still available.
 
BoydAllen said:
This whole issue goes way back, and I think that that is the cause of some of the differences. Remington first offered a 40X in the caliber in 1978 but didn't offer ammunition until 1988. Norma introduced their version in 1996. The Wikipedia article I read said that the dimensions were similar and the throat was longer , but it did not list the earlier dimensions. Some time after that Lapua began making it to the Norma spec'. Perhaps Kevin can tell us when. It was the Norma brass that first had the larger base dimension and longer neck. I am confining my remarks to the case part of the chamber because I don't know about the different throat spec's. Since I believe that it has been some time since Remington offered the brass and the custom shop still offers that chambering it is only reasonable to assume that at some point they changed to Norma spec' chambers, which would explain how some could have 40Xs that take the Norma or Lapua brass without modification. If your read this article about the 7BR you will see that it was based on necking up the Remington 6BR.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7mm_BR_Remington
Take careful note of the case length listed. This is one of the only references that I could find to point out the difference in length of the older design and the newer one. It is listed as 1.520 (as is the .22 BR in another Wikipedia article) rather than the current 1.560. The shorter length would correspond to my memory of my friend's situation. His barrel was not factory but by a highly respected benchrest gunsmith at a time when the Remington brass was still available.
Click to expand...
Well your saying I probably measure this 6mmbr Remington brass that I have wrong.PS the brass I have is 30 year young.
 
No that is not at all what I meant. I trust your measurements and thank you for providing them. We may not know all of the history involved here and we are not likely to. Did you read the thread that I provided a link to in the previous thread on this subject? In the second post there was a lot of good information. Do you remember the small primer pocket thin walled .308 UBR cases that Remington made specifically for reforming? I believe that the usual procedure for making 7BR for silhouette pistols was to use a forming and reaming die set, after trimming them to length. or perhaps they were trimmed after. The first sets were from RCBS and while they worked, cases made with them got tight at the shoulder right away. Redding solved that problem by setting their set up to set the shoulder back and ream at .30 caliber and then neck down, instead of reaming at 7MM as RCBS had.
 
BoydAllen said:
No that is not at all what I meant. I trust your measurements and thank you for providing them. We may not know all of the history involved here and we are not likely to. Did you read the thread that I provided a link to in the previous thread on this subject? In the second post there was a lot of good information. Do you remember the small primer pocket thin walled .308 UBR cases that Remington made specifically for reforming? I believe that the usual procedure for making 7BR for silhouette pistols was to use a forming and reaming die set, after trimming them to length. or perhaps they were trimmed after. The first sets were from RCBS and while they worked, cases made with them got tight at the shoulder right away. Redding solved that problem by setting their set up to set the shoulder back and ream at .30 caliber and then neck down, instead of reaming at 7MM as RCBS had.
Click to expand...
Well if you would like when I go to work Monday I will send you some pictures of the 30 brass also .
 
Stan Taylor said:
Well your saying I probably measure this 6mmbr Remington brass that I have wrong.PS the brass I have is 30 year young.
Click to expand...

Stan ,,,remember these folks only know what is on the internet or in some catalog,,,,I had a 22 BR then a 6mmBR back in the mid 70's (one chamberd by Wally Hart and another by Fred Hasecuster) and like everyone else I had to make the brass out of the .308 basic with small primer pocket,,,(they were a challenge to make!!!),,,most chambers of the era were .262" ND and 1.520" long (same as the newfangled PPC of that era) ,,,the second generation brass is what you have ,,it is allready formed as 6mm and with a no turn chamber to work right out of the box,,,the ctgs were .004 smaller at the .200 line than todays modern Lapua (6mmBR-Norma) ,,,and were the new length ~1.560 or less.....(Rem also made 7mm BR factory brass for the pistol Sillowette (sp) crowd),,,then in ~early 80's the Norma BR brass appeard here in the USA,,,guess what they were the new larger dim.468" at .200 ,,,however like most Norma brass they were soft as mud,,,,then in aprox 1 yr the Lapua became available for PPC (it had been a night mare with the Sako 220 Russian availability) and for 6mmBR (they never made it in 22cal).....I still have the button dies and form and trim dies to make em outa .308 somewhere gathering dust,,,,there are lots of people speculating about what they think they hear/read/know,,,!!!.....Jim Steckl (sp) and T.J. Jackson were heavily involved with the development of this ctg,,,,then in the 90's people realized that the case would drive the 105-107 class bullets fast enuff for long range (600-1000yds) and the long range game has never been the same,,,,,,Roger
 
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