If you were just starting out in reloading....

['Freak]

Mozella --> Maybe go back to #23 and read again from @ “……….. snip………..”.

 

[Erik Cortina]

.............. snip ..................... think loading to anything other that book COAL is dangerous.

You're certainly entitled to that belief. I disagree and here's why.

I always load longer than published COAL. I shoot my hand loads exclusively from my bolt gun, and only my bolt gun. I realize that COAL numbers published in various places are, with very few exceptions, based on SAAMI specifications or on the maximum length which will fit into a industry standard magazine.

I shoot my hand loads one at a time and they aren't even close to fitting the magazine of my rifle. However, I VERY carefully measure the CBTO specifications for each and every bullet type I shoot. I adjust the CBTO of the rounds I load in an appropriate way, using particular care to make sure I have exactly the amount of "bullet jump" I'm looking for based on careful testing of seating depth vs real-world performance.

While it might be sound advice for a beginner to start out loading only to published COAL numbers (that's how I started), loading longer than that, in and of itself, is not inherently dangerous IF one knows what he/she is doing.

Mozella, this is what I said. Read it carefully please.

I'd go find a mentor that had been reloading for about 30-50 years and get first-hand knowledge!!

Why do you need someone that has been reloading for so long? I know many that have reloaded for longer than 50 years and do not know what a bushing die is, have a different primer for each load because that's what the book said to use, and think loading to anything other that book COAL is dangerous.

 

[Shrek]

For a press I've settled on a Co-Ax press and don't see me ever buying another press. I've owned a Rockchucker Supreme before and loaded on both the Lee Classic cast and the little aluminum one too. The Lee Classic Cast is as good as any other cast iron "O" press and a really good value. I certainly wouldn't pay a dime more for any of the other O presses like the rockchucker or redding. The Co-Ax is definitely an upgrade imo. For dies either the Redding S type or Forster dies are top quality and value goes to the Forster dies. The Lee dies I own are better finished than the RCBS , Hornady , and Lyman I own and cost less. Hornady New Dimension dies are the only dies I've owned that gave unacceptable performance due to poor polishing. I fact , Hornady has made all the tools that I've owned that didn't perform well and I will never buy any of their tools except for inserts for my Stoney Point comparators. The Cam Lock trimmer and the concentricity neck bender are crimes against accuracy. The cheap lee perfect powder measure works like a champ and handles long stick powders like Retumbo , H1000 , and H4350 better without crushing grains of powder. High quality dial calipers are worth the money. Mitutoyu , Brown and Sharpe , and Starrat all make the quality you want. Cheap Chinese calipers change measures easily with small variations in hand pressure. Dials will last a lifetime if taken care of but digital calipers die all the time and batteries go dead. I would bet the used Brown and Sharpe calipers I own are 40+ years old and will last the rest of my life if I don't drop them. I've gone back to beam scales after repeated problems with electronic scales. They drift and die regularly. Yes RCBS will replace your chargemaster when it dies but that doesn't help you right then when you go to load or when you toss the check weight on after loading 100 rounds and find it has gained or lost a few tenths gr while you were loading...or two whole grains on one occasion I had. An American built Ohaus like a Lyman M5 , Ohaus 1005 , or RCBS 10 10 bought used and sent to Scott Parker is golden. Take care of it and it will last a lifetime and I can charge with my Lee powder measure and trickle up just as fast as a chargemaster can. A cheap electronic scale is very useful for sorting brass though. Wilson trimmer is the cats ass for trimming.

 

[Raythemanroe]

I would get a nice trimmer and drill adapter. Investment in a good scale is a sound investment, Do your research there. I would get a K&M force measurement arbor press and a Forster press. Hand priming tool, neck turning tools and maybe look @ a Omega powder tricker. Redding die wax, Redding Imperial neck lube. Buy some ogive and case measurement tools. IGaging makes a nice affordable absolute origin caliper. Wait, don't forget a powder thrower. The list is endless, Go to your bank or credit union and take out a small loan..


Ray

 

[liveround]

I really appreciate all the advice.....lots to choose from, Google here I come!

 

[Mozella]

........ snip ...............
Mozella, this is what I said. Read it carefully please.


............. snip .................

Oops............ Sorry. Mea Culpa............

Actually, I did read it carefully and that's what has me worried. I consider reading comprehension one of my specialties, but I screwed the pooch this time. My apologies.

I'm not sure what happened but perhaps I better lay off the cheap whiskey and buy more of the good stuff.

When I was a young co-pilot an old grizzled Captain warned me that alcohol killed off a certain number of brain cells each time you had a drink. He went on to say that he was willing to take that risk as long as the whiskey didn't kill off the brain cell which said, "GEAR DOWN".

 

[DennisH]

Quote from: RMulhern on 06:32 PM, 05/10/15

I'd go find a mentor that had been reloading for about 30-50 years and get first-hand knowledge!!


Why do you need someone that has been reloading for so long? I know many that have reloaded for longer than 50 years and do not know what a bushing die is, have a different primer for each load because that's what the book said to use, and think loading to anything other that book COAL is dangerous.

I agree with the above statement. Experience can't be beat.

I bought a RCBS RockChucker Supreme to start with.

Get the right equipment first. It's easy to sell if you decide to get out of it.

But most of all, you can't beat experience. Get the quality components first, you won't be sorry you did.

 

[DennisH]

The .223 and 7mm would be for accuracy first and foremost.

Wilson dies IMO are inexpensive and easy to use. Their know as some of the best

Everybody (manufactures) has a realoading kit now.

Redding and Forester are about the best, IMO. Bushing dies are the way to go. The Forester Co-Ax press is known as one of the best. The RCBS powder thrower is used by thousands and RCBS customer support is fantastic.

That's why I would put my own kit together.

I admit, I am always trying out new things. You will get into Meplat trimming and Bullet pointing as your next steps working towards quality reloading. A good scale is almost a must to start with.

Good Luck, Dennis

 

[liveround]

Are the digital scales very accurate or should I stick with mechanical? I am curious about the ChargeMaster combo, is it a good product?

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Reloading/Powder-Handling%7C/pc/104792580/c/104761080/sc/544895280/RCBSreg-ChargeMaster-Combo/741110.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fpowder-handling%2F_%2FN-1114304%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_544895280


I'm beginning to think that I need a dual approach to this, one for the .223 and .260 reloading (accuracy), and another for everything else (production).......is this a false assumption?

 

[liveround]

OK, after doing some reading, I think I have narrowed down a few categories.......

Press - RCBS Rock Chucker single-stage. They seem well built, heavy, and I think it would be better to learn on a single-stage than a turrent or progressive. They also "seem" to be more accurate.

Dies - for the .223 and .260 I would like to buy the Redding Type S dies: Lee dies for everything else. I am a little confused about which Redding dies to get though........could someone help out with this one? Here is a link:
http://www.brownells.com/reloading/reloading-dies/rifle-dies/index.htm?avs%7cManufacturer_1=redding%7credding&avs%7cDie+Style_1=Die+Sets++(Complete)

Calipers - Mitutoyu http://www.brownells.com/reloading/measuring-tools/calipers/mitutoyo-6-inch-dial-calipers-prod37768.aspx

Is a bullet comparator and calipers the same thing?

Trimmer - Wilson Trimmer and platform kit http://www.brownells.com/reloading/case-preparation/case-trimming/case-trimmers/sinclair-l-e-wilson-ultimate-trimmer-platform-kit-prod54116.aspx

Powder measure - Lee Perfect Powder Measure http://www.brownells.com/reloading/powder-handling/powder-measures-dispensers/lee-perfect-powder-measure-prod54231.aspx

Case prep - Lyman Case Prep Express http://www.brownells.com/reloading/case-preparation/case-prep-units/case-prep-xpress-prod42938.aspx

Scales:
Lyman Microtouch 1500 http://www.brownells.com/reloading/powder-handling/powder-scales/lyman-micro-touch-1500-electronic-scale-prod55083.aspx?psize=96
RCBS 505 (for .223 and .260) http://www.midwayusa.com/product/758842/rcbs-model-505-magnetic-powder-scale-511-grain-capacity

Tumbler - not sure yet

What measuring tools am I leaving out? This is where it gets confusing to me.....



Are these good choices?

Thanks

 

[Mozella]

........ snip .........
Is a bullet comparator and calipers the same thing?

....... snip .............
Tumbler - not sure yet

What measuring tools am I leaving out? This is where it gets confusing to me.....



Are these good choices?

Thanks

I've been thinking about your origional question. One problem is that when you start out you "don't know what you don't know". Will you load only one caliber or not. Will you load a thousand rounds per week or a hundred rounds per month? These things are hard to predict and your initial thoughts could very well change after you get more experience. You're wise to try to think through and get opinions from others.

You can use a set of inexpensive calipers to measure the overall length of your finished rounds to be sure they are short enough to fit in your magazine and are seated sufficiently and to be sure they aren't too short so as to cause a compressed load. Some people have done that and only that for years.

But if you catch the accuracy virus there is no end to what you will do to get more precision in your groups and that often starts at the loading bench. Accuracy is like a drug.

You'll want to be more accurate in your measurement which is where a bullet comparator comes in handy. Hornady makes a kit consisting of a body which clamps onto a normal set of calipers and a special insert for that body which is sized to various bullet calipers. Rather than contact the bullet at the very tip, it contacts the ogive (curved part) and that's supposed to give you more consistent results. In short, bullet comparators attach to any normal calipers, they're cheap, and probably worth having.

As for a tumbler, I think it's hard to beat wet-stainless-steel-media cleaning. Cheaper than dirt sells the Frankford Arsenal Platinum Rotary Tumbler With Sifter Lid and Stainless Steel Media for $147.41 and that includes fifty bucks worth of SS media. You will be hard pressed to beat that deal. I went cheap with the Harbor Freight version and I'm sorry I did. The Frankford has a much larger drum and I wish I had purchased it instead.

Another mistake I made was when I came to my bullet seating die. I load exclusively .223 which I shoot from my bolt gun only. I try to seat the bullet so that it is a particular distance from engaging the rifling. Since I use a variety of bullet types and since each is different and since we're talking about only a few thousands of an inch one way or another, I was spending a great deal of time fiddling with and adjusting my seating die to get just the right CBTO (case base to ogive) measurement. Naturally, I had to go through the fiddly adjustment process each time I loaded a different type of bullet. I recently bought a Forster micrometer type seating die and it's the best thing since sliced bread. Now I just dial in a particular number and seat each bullet type perfectly first time. My old die, in perfect condition, is now a personal museum piece and turns out to be money wasted.

The problem is, I didn't even know these existed when I started.

Other than mentioning a micrometer seating die, which you may not need depending on what kind of reloading you get involved in, I will say that I'm satisfied with my Hornady progressive press. I'm glad I didn't try to save a few bucks by purchasing a Lee progressive, which requires a lot more fiddling to set up and maintain; and I consider myself a fiddler. Starting with a decent single stage press is not a bad idea, but I would certainly consider some sort of quick change die system so that you can remove and replace dies without going through a tedious set-up and adjustment process each time.

Good luck. It sounds like you're well on your way to learning how to increase the cost of the sport of shooting, greatly increasing your frustration level, while spending hour after hour in your garage, away from your family as you manipulate highly flammable chemicals. Don't worry, we're all similarly afflicted.

 

[DennisH]

OK, after doing some reading, I think I have narrowed down a few categories.......

Press - RCBS Rock Chucker single-stage. They seem well built, heavy, and I think it would be better to learn on a single-stage than a turrent or progressive. They also "seem" to be more accurate. RCBS is a good press and about the most popular. But you can't pry the Forester our of many hands.

Dies - for the .223 and .260 I would like to buy the Redding Type S dies: Lee dies for everything else. I am a little confused about which Redding dies to get though........could someone help out with this one? Here is a link:
http://www.brownells.com/reloading/reloading-dies/rifle-dies/index.htm?avs%7cManufacturer_1=redding%7credding&avs%7cDie+Style_1=Die+Sets++(Complete) I like the three die bushing set. Sometimes especially with a 223, you only need to bump the shoulders and form the neck. I think I have mentioned watching a few youtube videos. A lot of them have great info for beginners, but as you know your going to get many opinions and answers.

Calipers - Mitutoyu http://www.brownells.com/reloading/measuring-tools/calipers/mitutoyo-6-inch-dial-calipers-prod37768.aspx I use a Lyman and a Frankfort caliper.

Is a bullet comparator and calipers the same thing? NO, this is something to think about, but IMO it's for the advanced stages. Let's get you up and running, then we will get into measuring bullets. Calipers is a measuring tool, a comparator is also, but it's mainly use for checking the bearing surfaces and headspacing.

Trimmer - Wilson Trimmer and platform kit http://www.brownells.com/reloading/case-preparation/case-trimming/case-trimmers/sinclair-l-e-wilson-ultimate-trimmer-platform-kit-prod54116.aspx Wilson is great. I use a Forester for small jobs, I use my Giraud for big jobs. The Giraud is great when you become 100% in the sport. Some use Forester 100% of the time.

Powder measure - Lee Perfect Powder Measure http://www.brownells.com/reloading/powder-handling/powder-measures-dispensers/lee-perfect-powder-measure-prod54231.aspx Some use a powder thrower, some including myself use a digital thrower and scale. I do verify my throw about 3 different ways just to make sure I am where I want to be.

Case prep - Lyman Case Prep Express http://www.brownells.com/reloading/case-preparation/case-prep-units/case-prep-xpress-prod42938.aspx Lyman is good, but I have my own method using individual tools to prep cases. For the beginner the RCBS IMO is hard to beat.

Scales:
Lyman Microtouch 1500 http://www.brownells.com/reloading/powder-handling/powder-scales/lyman-micro-touch-1500-electronic-scale-prod55083.aspx?psize=96
RCBS 505 (for .223 and .260) http://www.midwayusa.com/product/758842/rcbs-model-505-magnetic-powder-scale-511-grain-capacity All will get the job done, I guess I acquired 2 RCBS throwers and scales. There are better scales out there, but they cost. The RCBS manual scale is still used and trusted by some of the best

Tumbler - not sure yet Most are good, just get a large one if your dealing with a 100 cases more or less. I don't even remember which one I bought, but it's about 5 years old and still doing the job.

What measuring tools am I leaving out? This is where it gets confusing to me..... You have really covered about all of it. The powder scale is the main item you want to make sure is very consistent.



Are these good choices? Yes, "Most" were good choices. Now it's time to shop. The items you are looking at probably will be ordered through one of the big mail order companies.

Thanks

A lot of questions, but I will try to help you. They are the right questions by the way. I will mark my answers in bold next to your questions.

If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask. There is no bad question. The only bad one is the one you don't ask.

Dennis

 

[liveround]

Mozella -
I can answer a couple of your questions.....I will be precision loading for .260 Remington and .223 (will be shooting alot of .223 for practice).....but I will also reload for 9mm, .45 ACP, and .44 Mag for pistol rounds.

Thanks for the advice on the rest of it, very helpful.


Thanks for your answers Dennis!

 

[liveround]

I have further modified my list but can't decide on scales and dies.....

Scales - Lyman Microtouch 1500 and RCBS M500 (or RCBS 505)
RCBS Chargemaster

Keeping in mind that I will be precision reloading for .223/.260 and mass production for 9mm, .45ACP, .44 Mag


Dies - still no clue



P.S. On a personal note, there was an accident this morning at one of the gun stores I go to frequently. A customer came in with a malfunctioning gun and there was an accidental discharge. I don't know whether the customer was handling the gun or the employees. Anyway, one of the employees suffered a gunshot wound to the hand, the other employee a gunshot wound to the abdomen. These are good people, please keep them in your thoughts, thanks!

 

[jonbearman]

Please keep us updated on the situation to the wounded workers as it is severly disturbing that this even happened. Try watching the you tube video's on reloading put out by hornady,brownells,sinclair,and midway usa. They will help you get your feet wet so to speak. Wheree do you live as one of our members might be able to help you out.

 

[liveround]

jonbearman,

Thanks for the concern.....I actually found a local gunsmith that volunteered to help me get started in reloading, so I'm lucky there.....a really nice guy and he lives about 15 minutes away from me.

The employee with the hand wound was treated and released. The employee shot in the abdomen was taken by ambulance to the hospital and I don't know what his status is right now.....this happened about 11:45 AM CST.

Update to this story: A customer came in the store with a .22 pistol that was loaded and jammed. One of the employees attempted to clear it, shot himself in the hand, and shot his co-worker in the abdomen as the co-worker was walking by. Both have been treated and both do not appear to have life-threatening injuries.

Lesson Learned - treat all guns like they are loaded.....

 

[liveround]

Thanks to all for the advice.....here's what I ended up buying:

Press - Forster Co-Ax
Powder measure - Lee Perfect Powder Measure
Tumbler - Cabelas Model 400 Tumbler Kit with media
Flash hole uniformer - Lyman Flash Hole Uniformer
Trays (2) - MTM Universal
Funnel - RCBS
Scales - Frankford Arsenal Platinum Series Precision Scale with Case
Bullet puller - Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-EZ impact
Trimmer - Wilson Micrometer Trimmer and platform kit
Lyman Case Prep Xpress (115-Volt)
Calipers - Hornady Digital Caliper
Books - Hornady 9th Edition, Lyman 49th Edition
RCBS 3-die carbide .44Mag
Lee Precision Reloading 223 Remington Ultimate Rifle Die Set


Case lube, brass, bullets, and powder will be purchased locally.

Still can't decide what die set I need for the precision loading for .260 Remington.....would prefer Forster, then Redding......what is the difference between FL and bushing die?


Thanks!

 

['Freak]

Read, and then decide what sort of size die might best suit your circumstances:
http://www.whiddengunworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Bushing.NonBushingExplanation.pdf

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/fl-bushing-dies-vs-honed-fl-dies/

Start with this article, and then read those linked to within, read ‘em all.
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.ca/2010/12/basics-new-brass-preparation.html

 

[william5409]

Do you tend to be a dabbler, or a jump in the deep end of the pool kind of guy?

 

[liveround]

Do you tend to be a dabbler, or a jump in the deep end of the pool kind of guy?

I like the deep end