+1 small at 100 yards with flags. Reading the wind isn't the same as knowing how to act on wind information. IMO, it's fairly hard to read accurately off of vegetation.
If you wanted to improve your wind reading....
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Have a partner scoring, and talk about what the wind is doing. Tell your scorer where you are going to hold/dial . The conversation embeds the information better . I like to talk about where I want to hold, according to what the wind is doing. It helps me to talk , because I remember the last condition / result better
Fullbore is one of the best ways to learn how to deal with the wind. I shot in Blair Atholl, Scotland in 98, three shooters on the mound, rotating roles, one firing, one scoring, and the other getting ready to shoot. With the limited time target is exposed, every shot is like a one shot match. I wish we do the same here.
I learned a lot in those 2 days of shooting.
As Milanuk said, no waiting for your condition (it bugs me when the coach does not have the guts to click on reversal, happened to me many times in the team matches), and no opportunity to rattle off shots as fast as the puller can muster when the condition is right
I learned a lot in those 2 days of shooting.
As Milanuk said, no waiting for your condition (it bugs me when the coach does not have the guts to click on reversal, happened to me many times in the team matches), and no opportunity to rattle off shots as fast as the puller can muster when the condition is right
That would drive me nuts having a coach adjust my sights for me! I'm just at the point that all I do is hold on the center. At our 1000 yard matches I've had my last sighter go High right at the corner of the 4" square in the ten ring, and hold on the bottom left for my record ten shots and you got it that's were they all go.
Damn Wind.
joe Salt
Damn Wind.
joe Salt
memilanuk
Gold $$ Contributor
Joe,
When you don't have the option to rattle off your shots as fast as you can load and pull the trigger... holding off and/or dialing is pretty much a necessity. I'm not a fan of having someone else touching my scope knobs either, but thats the way things are done on some teams.
Monte
When you don't have the option to rattle off your shots as fast as you can load and pull the trigger... holding off and/or dialing is pretty much a necessity. I'm not a fan of having someone else touching my scope knobs either, but thats the way things are done on some teams.
Monte
I just bought and read Miller & Cunningham's book and I found it pretty disappointing. I think they do a very poor job of explaining the effect of wind on trajectory. I suppose I did pick up some good points about flag reading and observation skills but I can't say that I felt that it was worth the price.
I don't think any thing you can do to improve your wind reading on a range. Can't replace lt being your home range . Larry
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I apologize if this has been obvious to everyone here, except me. I've been struggling with the near wind vs far wind argument and have found the explanations regarding the higher impact of a near wind to be very deficient, while the arguments for the greater impact of a far wind have made sense. The problem is that people have tried to explain the greater impact of a near wind in terms of deflecting the angle of the bullet.
Anyone who has studied ballistics should understand that this is not true. The bullet leaves the barrel (or should) with such great gyroscopic stability that no amount of wind will change its orientation. Hatcher's study of bullets fired vertically showed that they returned to earth base-first, in the same vertical orientation that they left the barrel. They did not turn 180º and come back to earth point-first. Also, bullets striking the target at long range do so at pretty much the same orientation that they had when they left the barrel. This is one reason that bullets have slightly higher drag at long range than at short. So deflection is not a good term to explain it.
There was one spot in Miller & Cunningham's book where they quote Young who mentions "sideways velocity". It then struck me that you could look at wind and gravity in the same way. Gravity does not deflect the bullet, rather it imparts a downward velocity. If you had a magic pavement that could negate the effect of gravity and applied it to the last 500 yards of a 1000 yard range, bullets fired on this range would not stop "falling" when they reached the magic pavement. During the first 500 yards they acquire a downward velocity of about 175 in/s. They will retain this downward velocity for the rest of their trip, except for a small loss due to air resistance. So, a .308 bullet flying for 500 yards through normal gravity then 500 yards through zero gravity will still have a total drop of about 267", not just the 62" it acquired in the first 500 yards but this is still less than the ~400" drop it would normally acquire.
Using the same idea of "sideways velocity" I applied a "magic wall" or tunnel blocking the wind on the 2nd 500 yards to the problem and undertook the same Gedankenexperiment with my ballistic calculator and figure that a 10 mph cross wind in the first 500 yards imparts a ~51 in/s lateral velocity to the bullet. When the bullet flies behind the shadow of the "magic wall" the force that imparted the velocity disappears but the velocity is retained. Since the next 500 yards takes longer (1.17 sec vs 0.70 sec) than the first 500 yards, the total lateral displacement behind the wall is actually ~1.65 greater than the displacement in the first 500 yards.
All of this neglects a very gradual reduction of the lateral or downward velocity due to air resistance. if the bullet were able to fly over the "magic pavement" or behind the "magic wall" for a very great distance, it would eventually lose its downward or lateral velocity. Analogies of the boat traveling across a river don't work to explain this because the density of the water equals the density (displacement) of the boat and the very great friction of the boat moving sideways through the water will quickly absorb any lateral motion.
Anyway, thanks for bearing with me. I'm now convinced that the near wind has greater impact than the far wind but I had to work it out on my own.
Anyone who has studied ballistics should understand that this is not true. The bullet leaves the barrel (or should) with such great gyroscopic stability that no amount of wind will change its orientation. Hatcher's study of bullets fired vertically showed that they returned to earth base-first, in the same vertical orientation that they left the barrel. They did not turn 180º and come back to earth point-first. Also, bullets striking the target at long range do so at pretty much the same orientation that they had when they left the barrel. This is one reason that bullets have slightly higher drag at long range than at short. So deflection is not a good term to explain it.
There was one spot in Miller & Cunningham's book where they quote Young who mentions "sideways velocity". It then struck me that you could look at wind and gravity in the same way. Gravity does not deflect the bullet, rather it imparts a downward velocity. If you had a magic pavement that could negate the effect of gravity and applied it to the last 500 yards of a 1000 yard range, bullets fired on this range would not stop "falling" when they reached the magic pavement. During the first 500 yards they acquire a downward velocity of about 175 in/s. They will retain this downward velocity for the rest of their trip, except for a small loss due to air resistance. So, a .308 bullet flying for 500 yards through normal gravity then 500 yards through zero gravity will still have a total drop of about 267", not just the 62" it acquired in the first 500 yards but this is still less than the ~400" drop it would normally acquire.
Using the same idea of "sideways velocity" I applied a "magic wall" or tunnel blocking the wind on the 2nd 500 yards to the problem and undertook the same Gedankenexperiment with my ballistic calculator and figure that a 10 mph cross wind in the first 500 yards imparts a ~51 in/s lateral velocity to the bullet. When the bullet flies behind the shadow of the "magic wall" the force that imparted the velocity disappears but the velocity is retained. Since the next 500 yards takes longer (1.17 sec vs 0.70 sec) than the first 500 yards, the total lateral displacement behind the wall is actually ~1.65 greater than the displacement in the first 500 yards.
All of this neglects a very gradual reduction of the lateral or downward velocity due to air resistance. if the bullet were able to fly over the "magic pavement" or behind the "magic wall" for a very great distance, it would eventually lose its downward or lateral velocity. Analogies of the boat traveling across a river don't work to explain this because the density of the water equals the density (displacement) of the boat and the very great friction of the boat moving sideways through the water will quickly absorb any lateral motion.
Anyway, thanks for bearing with me. I'm now convinced that the near wind has greater impact than the far wind but I had to work it out on my own.
dcali
Bullet Maker
Three things.
One, learn how wind works. Others have given some good references. Know why a switching 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock wind can be tougher to shoot than a switching 2 o'clock to 4 o'clock wind. Know what to expect in terms of numbers (play with a ballistics calculator). Know whether or not a head wind or tail wind will matter. Know whether or not to pay attention to the near wind, far wind, or both. All that knowledge helps you sort out what you're seeing.
Two, get a cheap wind meter and just walk around the range with it. Use it to calibrate your own senses. Look at what it says and compare it to what you see and feel.
Three, practice. All 1 and 2 can do is help orient your mind - it's just a way to speed up the real learning. The real learning comes when you observe the wind, pull the trigger, and see the hit. Do that over and over again and the subconscious starts to take some of the load, and results improve.
One, learn how wind works. Others have given some good references. Know why a switching 11 o'clock to 1 o'clock wind can be tougher to shoot than a switching 2 o'clock to 4 o'clock wind. Know what to expect in terms of numbers (play with a ballistics calculator). Know whether or not a head wind or tail wind will matter. Know whether or not to pay attention to the near wind, far wind, or both. All that knowledge helps you sort out what you're seeing.
Two, get a cheap wind meter and just walk around the range with it. Use it to calibrate your own senses. Look at what it says and compare it to what you see and feel.
Three, practice. All 1 and 2 can do is help orient your mind - it's just a way to speed up the real learning. The real learning comes when you observe the wind, pull the trigger, and see the hit. Do that over and over again and the subconscious starts to take some of the load, and results improve.
First: I read wind everywhere I go. Walking the dog, jogging, hiking, kayaking, driving, etc... I've made it a habit to learn/read wind and distance everywhere I go.
Second: Spending hours on a kayak has been a great lesson. Watching water on streams, creeks, and lakes shows me how water behaves in open space, around objects to form eddies, and around land formation. I take that experience and apply it to wind.
Third: Letting others shoot and play spotter.
One of the most obvious things I never learned until I got behind the spotting scope was how different wind conditions can push bullets around at the highest trajectory. Watching trace at ranges beyond 1000 yards have been a great education.
Fourth: Accepting limitations. No matter how great your gear is. No matter how great you are as a shooter. The gear can it there. We can't.
Fifth: Laughter. Reminding myself this is supposed to be a sport/hobby/fun. Not work.
Second: Spending hours on a kayak has been a great lesson. Watching water on streams, creeks, and lakes shows me how water behaves in open space, around objects to form eddies, and around land formation. I take that experience and apply it to wind.
Third: Letting others shoot and play spotter.
One of the most obvious things I never learned until I got behind the spotting scope was how different wind conditions can push bullets around at the highest trajectory. Watching trace at ranges beyond 1000 yards have been a great education.
Fourth: Accepting limitations. No matter how great your gear is. No matter how great you are as a shooter. The gear can it there. We can't.
Fifth: Laughter. Reminding myself this is supposed to be a sport/hobby/fun. Not work.
Best statement I've been giving with this argument is: "All wind matters."
You can learn a lot about reading the wind shooting RF at 50 yds. You do need to have or borrow a good gun but you can easily shoot 150 targets in an hour. If you have the time, shoot RF one a week.
Depart123
Another way to think of it is that when a bullet leaves the barrel, it's sideways velocity is zero. As the wind accelerates the bullet, more and more energy is required to keep accelerating it. If the time of flight is long enough, it will reach a sideways "terminal velocity". But even if it is not in the air that long, it still remains that the greatest deflection is caused by the initial acceleration of the bullet leaving the barrel because that is where the strength of the wind is the most efficient at effecting a change.
Another issue, if shooting through a swirling 10mph wind things get complicated. Say the first 400 yards is R to L, then lazy in the very middle for 200 yds and then 10mph L to R at the other end.
The velocity and angle of deflection is set in the first 400 yds. Since the wind in the middle doesn't counteract it, the angular velocity continues ( for the most part) through the middle. The wind at the end does not have either the velocity nor the time to counteract what has already happened, so is only given half value when subtracting it's effect on the total drift.
This is the reality of shooting in the field. I've never seen a ballistic program that could calculate winds from more than one direction.This is how it was explained to me. If there is another way to look at it, I'm open to hearing it.
Depart123
I regularly take out the 223's and shoot to 600 yards. You will find out quickly how well you read wind! I am regularly humbled by the exercise. The only drawback to shooting so close is that you don't get much practice shooting over terrain features that complicate the equation.
Particularly the book (1 on his list) by Miller and Cunningham. It was the most influential factor, secondary to practicing, in my improvement in F-class. Read it and don't fret over what is not clear, shoot a match or two, read again...you will have a few Ah Ha's...rinse, repeat etc. Then hope and pray for calm days so you can assess your loads and not embarrass yourself and before you know it you will be looking forward to windy days to assess your skill. Good shooting and good luck.
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