I'd like to see a new F class Category. "F-TAC"

[Heman]

As was mentioned multiple pages back we run the 3rd F-Class division at CIHRPS matches. It's called F-Practical. F-T/R weight limits, Harris style bipods and a non-bunny ear rear bag. Intent is to give the guys with a factor type rifle a place to shoot and not have to compete against all the high dollar F-Open and T/R setups. Newer shooter appreciate it when the ask what people have in their T/R or Open setups at prices like $12k are thrown around they quickly just say we want to shoot we don't want to spend all that money. People may eventually migrate to Open or TR but as a sling shooter I don't see it as being any different than like we have it with Any, Palma, and Service.

Now as far as the break question. I've laid down many times next to people shooting M1As that isn't a break, but darn they are loud. Having a traditional break would be awful. For F-Prac we don't allow them. If people say they have a break I just say the way we setup our range with ETS we can't. We do allow suppressors.

You can have two ways to look at stuff. These are the rules, people need to adapt to them if they want to shoot. Or try and get people out on the range and participating. The vast majority of shooters DO NOT care about shooting internationally on teams or really want to compete for national championships. They just want to shoot. On our palma matches if someone wants to shoot an Any rifle as long as they shoot irons we let them shoot and throw them in the scores. Is it by the rules correct no, but it gets extra people out and they still have to shoot irons. An Any rifle hasn't won a palma match yet. Now if they want to shoot scope, sure, just not counting the score as far as match winner as that really changes the game. We do the same thing on matches that are iron sight matches.

It doesn't matter the style of shooting but we have to allow people to have a cheaper option to shoot and compete or the sport will die because dropping 10-12K just to see if you like the sport is a little hard for some to do.

 

[Mastershot]

Come down and shoot one of our varmint matches, you will get use to the muzzle brake real quick. I would love to shoot PRS style gun at the 1000 yards with a muzzle brake on a Iron target, rifle with bi-pod and small rear bag.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

^^^^^ Heman is my kinda people’ I druther see a class for Joe blow and his deer hunting gun from Walmart that give some people a chance to give it a try

 

[XTR]

^^^^^ Heman is my kinda people’ I druther see a class for Joe blow and his deer hunting gun from Walmart that give some people a chance to give it a try

There is nothing stopping anyone from showing up and participating in F class with anything they have. Will they win? … no, but they will get a taste for the game. Would a new shooter win if I gave him one of my full up F-TR rigs to shoot?… no, if the wind was blowing the scores wouldn’t be significantly different, a waterline 8 or 7 is the same as one at 10 o’clock. until you can read wind you’re gonna shoot low scores no matter what you bring to the line. When I first started I was pretty certain Danny Biggs could have out shot me with a 30-30 lever gun.

Now, that said there are some physical limitations For the equipment. I’ve seen Josephine Blow show up for a 600 yd match with the 243 she used for deer hunting with her beau. She never went for record in the second match. I was shooting next to her. At some point the gun started tossing rounds randomly around the entire target. I don’t know if the 20 or 30 shot string in the first match wiped the barrel or melted the synthetic stock. She did get 20+ sighters off in match two. The point is 20 shots plus sighters takes a rifle made to do that or by the time you do it 3 times (4 at some ranges running e targets) you’ll toast it.

A few yrs ago the NRA made AR tactical as a feeder match. These days I see guys with purpose built AR tactical setups shooting high 590s to 600 scores on the day. (I’ve seen one 200-20x). Every sport ever has at some point tried to make a starter class, but there are always guys who would rather win in the starter class than compete in the “big boys class.”

 

[Monte F]

I would like to see a new Rubicon X in my driveway, but the odds of that and F-Tac getting a NRA division are about the same.

 

[mgdietrich]

You didn't read.

Oftentimes brakes are Rockset on.

Change the weight on the muzzle changes the tune and the zero.

I do read, no brakes. Seems simple, take them off.

 

[Liven The Dream]

Well just No to all things on the Front of the Barrel..
Make it about Marksmanship…..
I have 50years of HP Palma and F/ Class shooting.

 

[jxb]

Wow, I missed a lot....

 

[Heman]

^^^^^ Heman is my kinda people’ I druther see a class for Joe blow and his deer hunting gun from Walmart that give some people a chance to give it a try

Here is my argument to people that say well a 3rd class is give everyone a trophy. It's no more that then seperating F

There is nothing stopping anyone from showing up and participating in F class with anything they have. Will they win? … no, but they will get a taste for the game. Would a new shooter win if I gave him one of my full up F-TR rigs to shoot?… no, if the wind was blowing the scores wouldn’t be significantly different, a waterline 8 or 7 is the same as one at 10 o’clock. until you can read wind you’re gonna shoot low scores no matter what you bring to the line. When I first started I was pretty certain Danny Biggs could have out shot me with a 30-30 lever gun.

Now, that said there are some physical limitations For the equipment. I’ve seen Josephine Blow show up for a 600 yd match with the 243 she used for deer hunting with her beau. She never went for record in the second match. I was shooting next to her. At some point the gun started tossing rounds randomly around the entire target. I don’t know if the 20 or 30 shot string in the first match wiped the barrel or melted the synthetic stock. She did get 20+ sighters off in match two. The point is 20 shots plus sighters takes a rifle made to do that or by the time you do it 3 times (4 at some ranges running e targets) you’ll toast it.

A few yrs ago the NRA made AR tactical as a feeder match. These days I see guys with purpose built AR tactical setups shooting high 590s to 600 scores on the day. (I’ve seen one 200-20x). Every sport ever has at some point tried to make a starter class, but there are always guys who would rather win in the starter class than compete in the “big boys class.”

You are correct to an extent but one thing you are not considering. AR-Tac is Service rifle off a bipod. You don't need a high dollar service rifle to be able to shoot a nice score on the 1 MOA target. Old wood stocked prone rifles can compete with newer rifles in Anchutz chassis. You look at some of the rifles the UK and Aussie shooters use in the International completion its some pretty old stuff but they routinely wax the US shooters. On the AR TAC side we've seen people come out with fancy stuff and they haven't faired any better. The 6.5CM AR10s don't really fair that much better than a standard 223 AR15. On the Fclass side that isn't the case as the 1/2 moa target is less forgiving and the newer rests and rifle/stock designs along with recoil reducers and tuners give a big advantage you see that when peoples scores go up when they get a new rifle/setup.

In our F-practical a couple of the shooters do shoot pretty high scores. The limiting factor is the bipod and the rear bag. On the Harris there is no tracking it moves it jumps, etc. The bipod sits on the grass, no boards, not carpet, etc. The wedge style bag just supports it doesn't aid in tracking. It comes down on more of the driver and not as much of the equipment. Now would someone shooting an Eliseo chassis gun have an equipment advantage over a Remington 700 BDL? Yeah the would. BUT the disparity is less and this is what the people who have shot it appreciate. It is the same concept as you see in competitions that divide between factory and custom.

 

[jamesl]

If I was allowed a muzzle brake...the 1st thing I would build is a 35bmg and machine out a brake with 3 baffles that were angled differently so I could hit 3 firing points on both sides of me with muzzle blast. This could work

 

[Bc'z]

If I was allowed a muzzle brake...the 1st thing I would build is a 35bmg and machine out a brake with 3 baffles that were angled differently so I could hit 3 firing points on both sides of me with muzzle blast. This could work

You've gotta be related to the fella who set up his braked 338LM next to me when I was tuning @300....
17 other benches and nobody else in sight, but noooo let's set this loud thunderous sumbitch up next to a guy trying to gather load info, blowing brass, turret caps and whatnot everywhere.
Lmao

I think he just wanted some company

 

[jamesl]

You've gotta be related to the fella who set up his braked 338LM next to me when I was tuning @300....
17 other benches and nobody else in sight, but noooo let's set this loud thunderous sumbitch up next to a guy trying to gather load info, blowing brass, turret caps and whatnot everywhere.
Lmao

I think he just wanted some company

Lol, I am unable to confirm or deny this accusation. I will admit that it is unlikely but a possibility or was it likely but unprobable. We will just have to agree I might be related, I am from Arkansas so I may have relatives I'm not or aware of

 

[mattri]

If I was allowed a muzzle brake...the 1st thing I would build is a 35bmg and machine out a brake with 3 baffles that were angled differently so I could hit 3 firing points on both sides of me with muzzle blast. This could work

The 35 BFC* Tactical, coming soon from Hornady....

* Big f*"+ng creedmoor

 

[drop_point]

I do read, no brakes. Seems simple, take them off.

So you’ll quit if your club or NRA creates a division to allow them?

 

[drop_point]

Imagine, if back in the day, somebody said “no scopes, seems simple, take them off”.

 

[LVLAaron]

I'm not going to read this whole dramatic thread...

But I do think FTR should be limited to 26-28 inch barrel, 308, 175g bullets, harris bipod and a rear bag.

 

[sfinn1]

I'm not going to read this whole dramatic thread...

But I do think FTR should be limited to 26-28 inch barrel, 308, 175g bullets, harris bipod and a rear bag.

And muzzle brakes

 

[Old Navy]

I had to quit IHMSA years ago to preserve my hearing. I really missed it until a friend talked me building a BR rifle.

 

[CA_Shooter]

You missed the point.

The brake isn't for recoil. Since you're such a smartass about it, I'll clue you in. You've obviously never shot PRS. The brake is invaluable for spotting shots in PRS.

People want more shooting opportunities with the rifle they ALREADY HAVE.

Attitudes like this is why shooting sports are dying.

You say "take the brake off". Well, that involves re-zero and returning. Some brakes are Rockset on. Its not that easy.

There are ways to where those terrible concussive waves you're talking about won't be a problem as outlined multiple times in the thread.

1. Put up a barrier and everybody with a brake shoots on the other side.

2. Put brake shooters on another relay.

3. Leave a couple empty lanes between them.

Strange that brake shooters don't have a problem with all these concussive waves. I guess some folks are just fragile.

He isn't missing the point

I don't want to be shooting next to someone at an FClass Match with a brake. Nope!

AND...youre missing the point...Brakes ARE used to reduce recoil SO THAT in PRS when you shoot off a barricade then the recoil from the rifle moves your reticle only a mil or so (or less). So that you can then spot your shots. The whole point is recoil reduction. That's why everyone moved to the 6mm. If it wasn't for recoil, everyone in PRS would be shooting 7mms so that they could see the splash of their misses...as some use a 6.5 so they can see splash.

And the pain of removing a muzzle brake.....? These so called "PRS" competitors that don't want to spin off their muzzle brake before an FClass Match? I can remove my A419 Hellfire Match to throw it in some CLR by tapping & spinning it in about 60 seconds....including pouring the CLR.

Are you trying to say these so called "PRS" competitors don't clean their brakes? :/

And as for having to re-zero? PRS matches generally have a zero period before a match. And PRS scopes generally are simple to rezero.

When I shoot my PRS rifle with a muzzle brake, it knocks everything around me down and away....I miss shots with my Garmin Xero because it gets blown down.

No way I want to shoot next to someone with a brake like mine at an FClass Match.

As for an FClass Tactical division, I'd take my non-FClass gun WITHOUT A BRAKE, in respect for the other shooters, and compete here and there in that division.

When I started in FClass, thats what I used anyhow...

 

[LVLAaron]

And muzzle brakes

I'm not a little girl, so, no.