I need a Primer expret

[fredhorace77]

Over the years i have acquired several different types of primers and have made use of some but some others i haven't tried yet. I mainly shoot bolt guns but recently purchased an AR-15 and plan on reloading for it also. Can anyone give me a short idea what these primers are good for. I have heard talk that some are harder cup and some softer cup...if so chime in and let me know if they are good for hotter loads or lighter loads. Also do any of these interchange with little noticed difference. Ive hear rumour that the AR-15 will need a harder primer, Is this true?
Here is a list of what i got

Fed. GM205M
GM210M
GM215M
FEDERAL MAG 215

WINCHESTER WSR
WLR

CCI 400
450
200

REMINGTON 6 1/2

 

[jr600yd]

In the AR's I found Remington 7 1/2's and CCi 450's to really tighten up the groups when shooting 69-80 gr SMK bullets with Varget.

 

[fredhorace77]

ty so much...any problem with slam fires with those primers....a friend of mine was telling me that the firing pin on ar's sticks out a little and if the primer is too soft can cause slam fire...ever heard of this?

 

[K22]

The Federal GM 205M and 210M are match primers - small and large rifle respectively.

The cup thickness on the 205M's is .0225" vs .019" on their standard 200 small rifle primers.

The CCI cup thicknesses are .20" for their standard small rifle, #400 primers, and .025 for their magnum and benchrest primers, #450 and #BR4 respectively.

Federal, CCI, Remington, and Winchester all have cup thicknesses of .027" for their large rifle primers.

I don't shoot a AR but my fellow shooters that do tell me the thicker primers are better for the AR to prevent slam fires. I don't know if that's true - I would think if the primer is seated properly it shouldn't be an issue with slam fires.

PS - I'm no primer expert.

 

[Gundog64]

Fred,
You will hear more about slamfires by a large margin, over how many actually happen. Yes it can happen but it is not the problem it is made out to be. First DO NOT USE REM. 61/2 PRIMERS in 223. In fact I think there is a warning about this on the box. Your Fed, and WSR primers will work fine. Just be prepared that what ever primer you decide on someone is going to tell you not to use it. I have loaded thousands of 223 with Win, CCI, and Wolf primers.Never had a slam fire (have only seen one) and have only pierced them when it was my fault.

 

[watercam]

I have. The CCI 450s should work for your AR. They make primers specifically for military semi-autos. #34 is the large rifle version, #41 is the small rifle version. Frankly most of the competitors I talk to use the 450s (since they are small rifle magnum primers they have a thicker cup). If you search the threads on this site you should run across a post with a list of most every primer and their cup thickness'.
The Fed. primers are:
205M small rifle match primers
210M large rifle match primers
215M large rifle magnum primers
Have used them all with good success. Federal primers have a thinner or softer cup so I limit mine to bolt guns. If you are using the Lapua Palma brass (.308 w/ small rifle primer pockets) I had some issues with pierced primers because my rifle had a large sized firing pin. I could have had it bushed to a smaller size but chose to use a harder primer instead (CCI BR4). Problem solved.

 

[watercam]

For what it is worth, talked to a shooter just two days ago who had a slam fire w/ his M1A. Bolt was found down range a short ways and he received a blast of crud to the face. I knew the safety glasses were for a good reason...

 

[fredhorace77]

ty so much everyone...this is exactly the kind of info i was looking for...historicaly i have only loaded for the bolt guns and have mainly only ever used Fed. Gold Metal primers. Have never had an issue but I dont push the envelope on alot of loads..The AR scene is extremely new to me and I am looking to load up a bunch of stuff for it and wanted some info before i started.

 

[fredhorace77]

Fred,
You will hear more about slamfires by a large margin, over how many actually happen. Yes it can happen but it is not the problem it is made out to be. First DO NOT USE REM. 61/2 PRIMERS in 223. In fact I think there is a warning about this on the box. Your Fed, and WSR primers will work fine. Just be prepared that what ever primer you decide on someone is going to tell you not to use it. I have loaded thousands of 223 with Win, CCI, and Wolf primers.Never had a slam fire (have only seen one) and have only pierced them when it was my fault.

what would the rem. 6 1/2 be good in if not for 223...something like a hornet or 218bee?

 

[fredhorace77]

just found this link on primer discussions...http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

Maybe old news to some so forgive me..

Federal GM205M work great in my bolt guns so im just thinking of staying with it in my ar also...anything wrong with this thinking?

 

[MrMajestic]

what would the rem. 6 1/2 be good in if not for 223...something like a hornet or 218bee?

Yes they happen to be a great primer for those!

 

[bigedp51]

The very early M16 rifle had a slamfire problem if a single round was loaded in the chamber and the bolt released without the magazine in place. The fix was to lighten the firing pin and use harder primers. By doing this they reduced the probability of a slamfire to 1 in 10 million.

The simple truth is if the magazine is in place for the M16/AR15 the drag of the cartridges feeding will slow down the bolt and eliminate slamfires. The same applies to the M1 and M14 and if you single feed any of them then close the bolt slowly.

I have never had a problem with "ANY" type primer in my M1 or AR15, I use magnum primers with ball powders and standard primers with single base stick powders.

It is advisable to bump the shoulder back on your cases at least .003 smaller than your chamber. You will read much on the subject of slamfires in forums and I believe they are caused by human errors, primers not seated properly, slamming the bolt home while single feeding, etc.

Military specifications require the primer to be .008 below the surface of the case. When hand loading make sure the primer bottoms out when fully seated. If the .008 depth isn't achieved and if this makes you sweat then uniform your primer pockets to achieve the .008 depth. (I don't)


From the CCI website
"Military-style semi-auto rifles seldom have firing pin retraction springs. If care is not used in assembling ammunition, a “slam-fire” can occur before the bolt locks. The military arsenals accomplish this using different techniques and components—including different primer sensitivity specifications—from their commercial counterparts. CCI makes rifle primers for commercial sale that matches military sensitivity specs that reduce the chance of a slam-fire when other factors go out of control*. If you’re reloading for a military semi-auto, look to CCI Military primers.
*Effective slam-fire prevention requires more than special primers. Headspace, chamber condition, firing pin shape and protrusion, bolt velocity, cartridge case condition, and other factors can affect slam-fire potential."

CCI #34 and #41 Military Rifle Primers
Mil-spec sensitivity
Initiator mix optimized for ball/spherical propellants
Available in large (No.34) and small (No. 41) rifle
Use the same data as CCI Magnum primers

 

[fredhorace77]

It is advisable to bump the shoulder back on your cases at least .003 smaller than your chamber. You will read much on the subject of slamfires in forums and I believe they are caused by human errors, primers not seated properly, slamming the bolt home while single feeding, etc.

Is this where small base dies come into play? Would I be best to get some small base dies or would normal FL dies work?

 

[bigedp51]

It is advisable to bump the shoulder back on your cases at least .003 smaller than your chamber. You will read much on the subject of slamfires in forums and I believe they are caused by human errors, primers not seated properly, slamming the bolt home while single feeding, etc.

Is this where small base dies come into play? Would I be best to get some small base dies or would normal FL dies work?

In 45 years of reloading I have never needed small base dies, also note that military chambers are larger in diameter and small base dies would be overworking the brass and shorten case life.

 

[rcw3]

Not all primers are appropriate for an AR-15 because it has a floating firing pin that hits the primer when the bolt closes on a round. Some primers also tend to pierce easily in AR's (i.e. the Fed 205M's and the brass colored Winchester primers - - not the older silver colored Winchester primers).

Some of the primers in the initial posting are large rifle primers and not really suitable for most of the brass that would be used for AR-15 loads. The only factory large rifle brass I know of is some 7.62x39 brass, but all .223 brass, 300AAC Blackout brass, 6mm HAGAR brass, 6.5 Grendel brass, etc. is all small primer.

The only Federal primers appropriate for an AR-15 are the "205M AR" primers (i.e. they were specifically made for use in AR's).

The Rem 7 1/2 primers are fine as are the CCI BR-4's, the #450's and the #41's

The Wolf or Tula Small Rifle Magnum primers are fine in an AR-15.

Robert

 

[jimbo88mm]

I use CCI 200s in my M1 and CCI 400s in my AR. A key step in avoiding slamfires is to make sure the primer is seated below flush. Uniforming primer pockets helps ensure your primers are seated deep enough.

 

[broncman]

4 1k boxes later of federal small rifle match primers and no slamfires in 3 AR's.
Best primers I have found behind Varget.

Probably 1k of that single loaded (bolt released,slammed etc) from a match AR.

 

[37Lincoln1]

+1 ^^^^

 

[Gundog64]

For what it is worth, talked to a shooter just two days ago who had a slam fire w/ his M1A. Bolt was found down range a short ways and he received a blast of crud to the face. I knew the safety glasses were for a good reason...

Yes it does happen, just not as much as is often stated. The M1A (IN MY OPINION) is more prone to an out of battery discharge.

Question I would have for the shooter involved: Was he single feeding from the mag or putting one directly in the chamber and letting the bolt go.

 

[bigedp51]

The original primers loaded by Remington that "allegedly" caused slamfires in the M16 were the same primers used for the M1 Carbine, Rem 6 1/2 primers and are .020 thick. (but were they in 1963?)

NOTE: The Army did not want the M16 rifle because it meant closing down the Springfield Arsenal and letting civilian contractors design weapons for the military. The Army did everything to sabotage the M16 project, they sent 100,000 M16 rifles to Viet Nam without any cleaning rods or cleaning kits. But the M14 rifles sent to Viet Nam had all its cleaning equipment. The Army kept making changes to the contract hoping Colt would go bankrupt after Colt set up tooling to make the M16 rifle. The slam fire "story" and fix were part of eleven changes the Army wanted hoping to delay production and cause Colt problems and even bankruptcy.

As you can see from the Rifle Primer Dimension Chart the only primers to worry about are the cups that are .019 and .020 in thickness.

Question and food for thought: How many people have had slamfire problems in their AR15s shooting commercial .223 ammunition with standard thickness primers.

Now You Kids Get Off My Lawn! (I rub Viagra on my primers)