I just do not get it

[magic mike]

Looked you up. Some nice stuff you've made.. Do you have a pic of the guitar foe Eric?

This is a horrible picture of me (glasses) and Lee Dickson who was EC's guitar tech at the time. Taken just before concert time in the basement of the old Reunion Arena in Dallas. I have a bunch of pics of that guitar but they are not in digital format.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I had a couple of months in it Dusty. Off and on. Hard to count the time waiting for glue to set and finishes to dry etc. Tons of sanding time!

Very very nice work. Makes me want to smash my g&l strat into my gibson les paul

 

[TheOtherZilla]

You do nice work.. I just play em.. My son was making a few for a while then moved on.. I financed a Les Paul clone and spec'd/ bought all the hardware.. I wanted the neck to pretty much match my 62 Strat. But he made it a bit fatter.. I have it set up as a blues guitar..

 

[Paddyd]

I just watched a youtube video of a custom builder in KY. Not going to mention a name. He's selling his rifles for anywhere from 2K on up, but none I saw were warranted to shoot any tighter then 1/2MOA @ 100Yds... I have an old Savage 308 that cost me under $400 new that will easily do that all day long. I have an Savage M12 LRPV that cost me about a grand that shoots in the .2's all day long.. I constantly read articles in the gun rags talking up these high dollar custom rigs costing thousands, but when I read the stats on what type of accuracy they are giving I just shake my head.. Most are shooting 3/4MOA or so.. Heck, these days most of your better production rifles will do that for a fraction of what these customs cost.. My local smith who has been in business at the same shop for over 40 yrs will blueprint a factory action for $150.00. Cut an 11 deg crown for $60.00. Chamber a blank for $100.00 and I'm betting the work will shoot as good as those custom rigs costing thousands. If you can afford it and want to say you paid big bucks go for it. Me I'd rather spend the extra on bullets, powder and other essentials.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I just watched a youtube video of a custom builder in KY. Not going to mention a name. He's selling his rifles for anywhere from 2K on up, but none I saw were warranted to shoot any tighter then 1/2MOA @ 100Yds... I have an old Savage 308 that cost me under $400 new that will easily do that all day long. I have an Savage M12 LRPV that cost me about a grand that shoots in the .2's all day long.. I constantly read articles in the gun rags talking up these high dollar custom rigs costing thousands, but when I read the stats on what type of accuracy they are giving I just shake my head.. Most are shooting 3/4MOA or so.. Heck, these days most of your better production rifles will do that for a fraction of what these customs cost.. My local smith who has been in business at the same shop for over 40 yrs will blueprint a factory action for $150.00. Cut an 11 deg crown for $60.00. Chamber a blank for $100.00 and I'm betting the work will shoot as good as those custom rigs costing thousands. If you can afford it and want to say you paid big bucks go for it. Me I'd rather spend the extra on bullets, powder and other essentials.

Nobody in their right state of mind will put an actual real deal guarantee on what a rifle can do in the general public’s hands. Next thing you know its shooting a 3/4” group but when you spend an hour on the phone you realize theyre shooting core locts off a truck hood rest with a light jacket for a sandbag looking thru a 3x9 tasco shooting at a sharpie dot on a paper plate in a gravel pit. Even though a savage may shoot a .125” group id venture to say they dont advertise it. And when it dont they got a mad customer.

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Next thing you know its shooting a 3/4” group but when you spend an hour on the phone you realize theyre shooting core locts off a truck hood rest with a light jacket for a sandbag looking thru a 3x9 tasco shooting at a sharpie dot on a paper plate in a gravel pit.

That's OK, because they're measuring the group with a yardstick, rounding the number down, and not counting the "flyers."

 

[Dusty Stevens]

That's OK, because they're measuring the group with a yardstick, rounding the number down, and not counting the "flyers."

And it does it “all day, when they do their part”

 

[jsn]

Why do some shops charge $1,200 for a transmission rebuild, and some others charge up to $3,500 for the same work?

The devil is in the details. Many people can't understand the details.

Advertising, marketing, and BS work as designed.

 

[hogpatrol]

Nobody in their right state of mind will put an actual real deal guarantee on what a rifle can do in the general public’s hands. Next thing you know its shooting a 3/4” group but when you spend an hour on the phone you realize theyre shooting core locts off a truck hood rest with a light jacket for a sandbag looking thru a 3x9 tasco shooting at a sharpie dot on a paper plate in a gravel pit. Even though a savage may shoot a .125” group id venture to say they dont advertise it. And when it dont they got a mad customer.

Dusty, Thompson Center guarantees one MOA @100 yards.

https://www.tcarms.com/firearms/bolt-action-rifles

 

[284winner]

Guys and gals,
I am not one to complain or get involved in disputes on the forums I belong to. I am 53 and I will be honest, I have had a pickup truck load of all types of fire arms over the years. I am not a collector nor have safes full of guns. It is the only hobby I have had that I truly enjoy and never get tired of after all these years. As far as any rifle I have had it has been a custom or had a make over. I stopped building off Remington action many many years ago and went to the custom actions for any type of build I was having done.

I know that over the years the prices have increased on labor and parts. Hey, it is life and everything works that way. Their are more quality fire arm parts, reloading equiptment, bullets ect than ever before to choose from. Right now if you have the money in your pocket for a custom build it is decisions, decisions, decisions because their is so much to choose from.

This leads me to my post. I have had builds from 98 percent of your top builders at one time. I am not here to call any one out nor bad mouth any companies. They build accurate quality stuff. This comes to my question. How in the dickens on a Remington action custom build using McMillan stock, custom BDL bottom metal, factory trigger, custom barrel ect cost 5000.00 plus dollars to build. Yea, no names but I see people pay 6000.00 for a Remington action based custom rifle. I am sorry, but when you have a total of 2000.00 and less in parts and 3000.00 to 4000.00 in labor, well, I just think the screw is backed out quite a bit to pay that kind of money. Has it just come down to greed? Their are so many great smiths out their today to choose from. I will start hanging onto the things I have because if these type prices start to become the norm my days of having anything built are over.

As long as the guys with big money keep paying those prices for custom built guns, those prices will continue to rise. This simply tells the builder that they are worth the sticker price he hangs in them. Much the same as pick up trucks. You can't convince me that a truck cost more than 20k to build and assemble, yet the 50-70k sticker on it still sends it down the road. WE dictate prices. As long as WE pay the price, the price will stay where it's at...period. I guarantee there will always be those that spend the big buck on those items and not think twice. Luckily there are other options for those of us with more brains than bucks.

 

[USMCDOC]

On the same 'note', I build acoutuc guitars...had one of the best known luthiers in the country play one and all he could say was "WOW"...Then he asked how much I charged for one, and I told him anywhere from $1000 to $1500. His immediate reaction was. "You'll never sell them for that amount. People will think they're no good. Double the price, and you'll be 5 years behind within 6 months". I guess if it cost more, it has to be better?

I used to play bass.. i know where your coming from.. a lot of these "custom" bass builders a smoking a lot of guys.. with that "fender" copy crap and charging 5-7 grand for em..

 

[284winner]

Aside from a couple Pierce actions, my actions consist of Savage and Remingtons. I have many guns that are factory and untouched otherwise that are of other manufacturers but the semi custom guns I own wear mostly Savage or Remington actions. They do wear good barrels, trigger, stocks and optics. These are guns I have built myself with the exception of some of the machining. Typically I have about 1500.00-2500.00 in these guns (minus optics). These same guns built by a shop with a custom action would range from 4000-5000.00. Will they be more accurate, NO. Will they look nicer, NO. Will they kill better, NO. Will they do anything better, NO. They WILL however cost alot more. These are all arguable issues but TO ME they will not do anything better. All my guns outshoot me. It's simply a matter of preference. Many and honestly most competitive shooters or shooters/hunters with many more zeros in there pay checks than mine, opt for the custom option rather than a rifle wearing a Savage or Remington logo on the side of the action. That simply is why custom gun prices stay where they are. Demand is high.

 

[284winner]

The uninformed/wealthy are willing to pay for a name. "It has to be the best, because so & so is using it"

Then theres that !!! Absolutely correct.

 

[jimmymac]

It all comes down to what tool is needed for the job and what someone is willing to pay.

For hunting, I personally don't see the need (for me) for a high dollar custom when there are a lot of good factory offerings available. All I need for my purposes is a good rifle that will consistently shoot into and inch and hopefully less if I was lucky enough to get one that wasn't built on a Tuesday after the long holiday weekend. It's still a crap shoot though and does makes me wonder how much money gets wasted on factory hunting guns that never live up to expectation. I know I've spent some good money expecting better but got worse. I've had good factory guns and bad factory guns including a Sako that was barely minute of deer.

On the other hand if a person is looking to buy a bench rest gun to compete with, a Savage, Tikka, Ruger, Sako, Remington, etc., etc. won't cut it unless you are competing in an event that features a factory class. End of story. If you think different, show up to any short range BR match with your reworked factory piece and aftermarket stock then report back afterwards.

Either way, and back to the OP's original point...I'm not paying 5K or 6K for any gun as long as I can still find a top notch smith who does it for considerably less.

 

[284winner]

It all comes down for what tool is needed for the job and what someone is willing to pay.

For hunting, I personally don't see the need (for me) for a high dollar custom when there are a lot of good factory offerings available. All I need for my purposes is a good rifle that will consistently shoot into and inch and hopefully less if I was lucky enough to get one that wasn't built on a Tuesday after the long holiday weekend. It's still a crap shoot though and does makes me wonder how much money gets wasted on factory hunting guns that never live up to expectation. I know I've spent some good money expecting better but got worse. I've had good factory guns and bad factory guns including a Sako that was barely minute of deer.

On the other hand if a person is looking to buy a bench rest gun to compete with, a Savage, Tikka, Ruger, Sako, Remington, etc., etc. won't cut it unless you are competing in an event that features a factory class. End of story. If you think different, show up to any short range BR match with your reworked factory piece and aftermarket stock then report back afterwards.

Either way, and back to the OP's original point...I'm not paying 5K or 6K for any gun as long as I can still find a top notch smith who does it for considerably less.

I've heard literal testimony from very competent and trustworthy gun Smith's on this very forum that would argue your second paragraph. No, I'm sure nobody would expect any factory gun to compete in any BR event and finish well. However, a reworked factory action with custom barrel, trigger, stock and good optics are a whole different story and a gun that cost half as much as the true custom competitor. I'm not a competition shooter and the standards of those that do compete are higher than mine for consistent accuracy for sure. I own a few semi customs that will shoot .2&.3 with even me behind them. That said, these are ranges out to 800 yards and at 1000 .3-.5 regularly. I could not ask any better from another action put together by another human yet the same accuracy many times over is purchased for sometimes triple the cost of what may wear the Remington or Savage logo but is still a custom build. I absolutely get buying a custom action and assembling it all custom. I just don't get the big spending for another person to do what anybody can do with a little time involved. Again, big bucks Trump's all else.

 

[jimmymac]

I've heard literal testimony from very competent and trustworthy gun Smith's on this very forum that would argue your second paragraph. No, I'm sure nobody would expect any factory gun to compete in any BR event and finish well. However, a reworked factory action with custom barrel, trigger, stock and good optics are a whole different story and a gun that cost half as much as the true custom competitor. I'm not a competition shooter and the standards of those that do compete are higher than mine for consistent accuracy for sure. I own a few semi customs that will shoot .2&.3 with even me behind them. That said, these are ranges out to 800 yards and at 1000 .3-.5 regularly. I could not ask any better from another action put together by another human yet the same accuracy many times over is purchased for sometimes triple the cost of what may wear the Remington or Savage logo but is still a custom build. I absolutely get buying a custom action and assembling it all custom. I just don't get the big spending for another person to do what anybody can do with a little time involved. Again, big bucks Trump's all else.

I get your point. I think you missed mine. My point was that I wouldn't spend the kind of money that the OP put out there on the first post and that includes buying a custom bench gun with a custom action so I'm with you in that regard.

As far as the rest of it, I'll stick with what I said. Reworked Remington 700's have won their share, but that comes at a cost and I bet it isn't half as much like you say. It's probably a lot closer to the actual cost of a true custom rig built from the ground up because all that's really being saved is some nominal amount on the action itself by the time it's trued and timed. The rest of the costs for the build would be the same, so I don't see getting away with paying half. Maybe Alex or one of the other well known accuracy smiths that frequent this board will pipe up and give us the % of money saved by going with a Remington instead of a BAT, Borden or Kelbly.

It's good you can do these builds on your own and are happy with the results. In the end that's all that matters, but for many like myself...I still need a good gunsmith to put together my stuff. I just won't do it at the numbers quoted by the OP until I have to, and at that point maybe I'll just shoot what I got.

 

[hogpatrol]

Here you go!

https://www.gunwerks.com/store/in-stock

 

[jimmymac]

Here you go! View attachment 1038337

https://www.gunwerks.com/store/in-stock

Those must shoot in the 0's.

 

[hogpatrol]

Those must shoot in the 0's.

Roger that! Hey, maybe even in the minus zeros or the .00001s.

 

[jimmymac]

Roger that! Hey, maybe even in the minus zeros.

...all day long.