I just do not get it

[magic mike]

This was the most expensive guitar I ever built . Totally hand made from raw materials. It is hollow and weighed 5-1/2 pounds. Took me two months to build it and it sold at retail for $4,000. Made a less visually impressive one for Eric Clapton and it sold at auction a few years ago for $14,500. Ya just never know what people will pay for something. It's up to the individual to educate themselves so they don't over-pay or get snookered. What ever's fair..............in the eye of the buyer.

 

[Milo 2.0]

I see a big market consolidation underway, mergers, bankruptcies, going out of business sales. In a couple of years, your choices for a custom shoot'n iron will be more limited, and with that, prices higher. Several years ago a local business called Tracking Point tried to market a highly accurate, self guided, long range sniper rifle. It seemed a quantum leap in firearm precision, and looked like it couldn't lose. But today, it's all but gone. Wrong market, or wrong timing?

$11,000 may just seem real cheap in 10 years or so.

Custom rifle market is 5 times what it was 10 yrs ago, I think this statement is misguided.
New gunsmiths are setting up shop all over, and producing accurate rifles. Yes, they need to be business men too, delivering on a set timeline helps insure they stay busy. If a few fall off because of lack of accountability, who cares.
I predict any shop wanting to get or stay a large operation will need to doing 95% of all work on CNC machines in the future, from chambering to stock work and small stuff too, which may increase pricing slightly.

 

[kris bassett]

I'm sure there are builders worth the wait and extra money. This was my first experience in custom work. 2 years later I received my barrel but they "lost" my bolt that they requested I send along so they could headspace it. They never replaced my bolt and it was not headspace correctly.

So I bought a lathe so I could learn to do my own work. I have very little work to do before the lathe is up and running.

 

[STS]

If I may I would offer a bit of a historical perspective of the precision rifle world. I was introduced to benchrest rifles (and bullet making) 42 years ago by a fellow that lived down the road from me by the name of Walt Berger. Back then there were only two match quality barrel makers, Hart and Shilen. There were probably no more than 10 gunsmiths that were in the business of building BR rifles. Two stock manufacturers, Brown and Mcmillan followed shortly thereafter by Lee Six. The point is that it was a VERY small market. There were probably no more than a few hundred precision rifle shooters in the country. Contrast that to what we have today with who knows how many thousand precision shooters. Hunters back then simply went to the store and bought a Remington or Winchester. Then the masses began to become aware of the advancements in rifle accuracy technology and quality were requested by the accuracy gunsmiths at an ever increasing rate. The market for those rifles gave rise to the dozen or so barrel makers we have now as well as many remarkable actions and stocks. Every part that goes into a rifle has been developed to the extreme due to the explosion of demand. It truly amazes me today just how many shooters are into precision rifles. Also amazing is the prices commanded by those rifles.

I do my own rifles and a few for some close friends with the same techniques that I used to build my BR rifles. I don't compete any longer but I build my live varmint and predator rifles with a great deal of precision. It certainly doesn't take anywhere near "hundreds of hours" to build one. If I have all the parts on the bench I can build one in a week.

It's hard to understand how prices end up where they are but I suppose there is a reason that they do. Only the customer can decide what it's worth to them. STS

 

[shortgrass]

The only "hundred hours " I have spent on rifle work is stock making by hand from a blank. Stock making takes time and perseverance. The rest goes fairly quickly.

 

[DukeDuke]

The custom bolt gun outfits can be a bit out there, but the custom AR world is just an outrage.

 

[6xcshooter]

Just wait till rifles cost as much as some shotguns. Now talk about expensive , shotguns can be unbelievable. Got to admit though some shotguns are real pieces of art.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Just wait till rifles cost as much as some shotguns. Now talk about expensive , shotguns can be unbelievable. Got to admit though some shotguns are real pieces of art.

They aint got nothin on a fine double rifle. And youll see PH running around africa with $50,000 examples throwing them in the back of a truck and beating snakes with the butt. They get them as tips from the big money guys. I get guns for tips but nothing like that for sure

 

[STS]

The sheer man hours of work and hand fitting that goes into a truly fine shotgun is worth a significant sum of money. Every piece of one of those guns takes lots of time and far more skill than most "gunsmiths" will ever possess. They are works of art.

 

[hoz53]

I wonder if these guys have a massive insurance rider for all these customer guns they are keeping for better than a year, because they use a line of guns, instead of an Excel spreadsheet or even a frigging piece of paper.

The main reason I won't do builds like this, is the wait time that they have to keep your gun even when they are not working on it. It is like some weird tradition among gunsmiths that your gun MUST sit in their shop for some time before they even touch it.

Dude. We have Fedex ground. I can have my action there in two days.

yeah thats the way with me i always wondered why cant i send it in when youre ready to work on it?

 

[Toolbreaker]

Something that has been alluded to but not mentioned directly: volume control. Building, marketing and maintaining a business name & reputation is one of the more difficult aspects of owning a business. Extreme lead-times and poor quality to take on an increased sales volume will burn a business down 10x faster than the business name was established. One way of keeping that in check is with a product price increase. In my opinion, this narrows the sale volume down while keeping the business reputation solid. Prices can be adjusted +/- to compensate for the ebb & flow of sales. I highly doubt this is what is taking place with all of the builders that Dan is referring to, but there are a couple that come to mind which may very well be the case.

 

[johnfred1965]

I shoot 3-gun, not because I am competetive, but because it is loads of fun! Had a guy in my squad one time, sported a $3500 scope on his AR. Said you couldn't pay him to put a Leupold on his rifle. Guess what I was shooting? I don't spend a fortune on my equipment because I usually place toward the bottom. Out of 250 competitors, this guy finished 2 ahead of me. I guess he spent the money so he wouldn't have to worry about his equipment being the problem.

 

[DukeDuke]

Just wait till rifles cost as much as some shotguns. Now talk about expensive , shotguns can be unbelievable. Got to admit though some shotguns are real pieces of art.

A smooth bore gun to shoot at 50 yards.
Why?

 

[ms6852]

Up to a certain point you get what you pay for, but to me being a practical man who loves to shoot but not to compete I seldom buy custom stuff. I can afford any firearm but refuse to buy one because it is going to be "More" accurate. With todays technology most rifles are MOA shooters out of the box, but the sad truth is most shooters are not.

A few months ago I was checking the zero for my rifle at 200 yards for deer season. This nice young man sets up his very impressive rifle and a scope that could literally act as a spotting scope mounted on his rifle. After a few shots he got the group he wanted. Almost a clover leaf very impressive at 200 yards. I than shoot my 30-06, 3 shots and not quite as impressive as his but still sub Moa as all 3 shots were inside the one inch square at 200 yards.

I asked the individual how much his get up was $3000 for the scope and $6000 for the rifle. I showed him my shot group and said $400 for my scope a Sightron Big Sky I got on sale and about $500 for an older Tikka. He paid $9000 and I paid $900, I do not think that paying $8100 more to shrink my group is worth it. BTW I was using factory loads Winchester silver tips, his were hand loads. I am sure I can shrink my group with hand loads.

 

[jimmymac]

Up to a certain point you get what you pay for, but to me being a practical man who loves to shoot but not to compete I seldom buy custom stuff. I can afford any firearm but refuse to buy one because it is going to be "More" accurate. With todays technology most rifles are MOA shooters out of the box, but the sad truth is most shooters are not.

A few months ago I was checking the zero for my rifle at 200 yards for deer season. This nice young man sets up his very impressive rifle and a scope that could literally act as a spotting scope mounted on his rifle. After a few shots he got the group he wanted. Almost a clover leaf very impressive at 200 yards. I than shoot my 30-06, 3 shots and not quite as impressive as his but still sub Moa as all 3 shots were inside the one inch square at 200 yards.

I asked the individual how much his get up was $3000 for the scope and $6000 for the rifle. I showed him my shot group and said $400 for my scope a Sightron Big Sky I got on sale and about $500 for an older Tikka. He paid $9000 and I paid $900, I do not think that paying $8100 more to shrink my group is worth it. BTW I was using factory loads Winchester silver tips, his were hand loads. I am sure I can shrink my group with hand loads.

That's interesting. The only reason I've gone custom is to be more accurate. For years, I knew I was shooting to my various rifles capabilities and not the other way around. In my quest for ever smaller groups, I got tired of the gun being the limiting factor, so I took the plunge on a custom and haven't looked back. Of course, I'm not talking about a deer gun here.

 

[MDSpencer]

They aint got nothin on a fine double rifle. And youll see PH running around africa with $50,000 examples throwing them in the back of a truck and beating snakes with the butt. They get them as tips from the big money guys. I get guns for tips but nothing like that for sure

I got a Zeiss as a tip

 

[joshb]

Something that has been alluded to but not mentioned directly: volume control. Building, marketing and maintaining a business name & reputation is one of the more difficult aspects of owning a business. Extreme lead-times and poor quality to take on an increased sales volume will burn a business down 10x faster than the business name was established. One way of keeping that in check is with a product price increase. In my opinion, this narrows the sale volume down while keeping the business reputation solid. Prices can be adjusted +/- to compensate for the ebb & flow of sales. I highly doubt this is what is taking place with all of the builders that Dan is referring to, but there are a couple that come to mind which may very well be the case.

Absolutely. I agree. I used that strategy in my building business and it works. I also began to cull thru potential clients. You can ditch the bad ones and just work for nice people.
I reread my post and I need to clarify. A good smith, Company , Corporation, whatever, can and should be able to make a profit. Exceptional smiths should get top dollar for their extra attention to detail and experience. My comment was aimed at the "gouger". The guy that buys a Savage action, puts a prefit Green Mountain barrel on it, beds it into a McMillan stock and wants $2500.

 

[shortgrass]

A smooth bore gun to shoot at 50 yards.
Why?

So you can hit a flying target! A flying target that might be flying at 60+mph.

 

[hogpatrol]

Mr. Tucker, Here's my observation. There's a market for those with more money than brains and no common sense.
That and some believe cost always equates results or magically transforms money in to experience and skill.

 

[hogpatrol]

They aint got nothin on a fine double rifle. And youll see PH running around africa with $50,000 examples throwing them in the back of a truck and beating snakes with the butt. They get them as tips from the big money guys. I get guns for tips but nothing like that for sure

For sure, PHs define the word "BEATER" when it comes to guns.