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I just do not get it

dtucker

dtucker

Guys and gals,
I am not one to complain or get involved in disputes on the forums I belong to. I am 53 and I will be honest, I have had a pickup truck load of all types of fire arms over the years. I am not a collector nor have safes full of guns. It is the only hobby I have had that I truly enjoy and never get tired of after all these years. As far as any rifle I have had it has been a custom or had a make over. I stopped building off Remington action many many years ago and went to the custom actions for any type of build I was having done.

I know that over the years the prices have increased on labor and parts. Hey, it is life and everything works that way. Their are more quality fire arm parts, reloading equiptment, bullets ect than ever before to choose from. Right now if you have the money in your pocket for a custom build it is decisions, decisions, decisions because their is so much to choose from.

This leads me to my post. I have had builds from 98 percent of your top builders at one time. I am not here to call any one out nor bad mouth any companies. They build accurate quality stuff. This comes to my question. How in the dickens on a Remington action custom build using McMillan stock, custom BDL bottom metal, factory trigger, custom barrel ect cost 5000.00 plus dollars to build. Yea, no names but I see people pay 6000.00 for a Remington action based custom rifle. I am sorry, but when you have a total of 2000.00 and less in parts and 3000.00 to 4000.00 in labor, well, I just think the screw is backed out quite a bit to pay that kind of money. Has it just come down to greed? Their are so many great smiths out their today to choose from. I will start hanging onto the things I have because if these type prices start to become the norm my days of having anything built are over.
 
Yea, it is just crazy. Like I said, this post is not to bash any company or name anyone. I completely get it that everyone has their choice on how they spend the money they earn. I am just lost that when you break down a build like that you have..........

1000.00 in chambering and crowning a barrel
1000.00 in pillar bedding the stock
1000.00 in cerecoting the metal work
1000.00 in tuning a factory Remington trigger and truing the action

Their is no way that some one is going to get on here and post something and try to convince and justify that those prices are worth it. I see these type rifles sell all the time. I do not loose sleep over it but it does really boggle my mind.
 
Its crazy but a lot of it is the people buying this stuff thinking its the most accurate to be had. I still shoot a lot of wood stocked guns with both iron sights and older scopes. If these folks think you need to spend this kinda money to shoot, maybe they are willing to bet a few bucks going against vintage firearms.
 
dtucker said:
Guys and gals,
I am not one to complain or get involved in disputes on the forums I belong to. I am 53 and I will be honest, I have had a pickup truck load of all types of fire arms over the years. I am not a collector nor have safes full of guns. It is the only hobby I have had that I truly enjoy and never get tired of after all these years. As far as any rifle I have had it has been a custom or had a make over. I stopped building off Remington action many many years ago and went to the custom actions for any type of build I was having done.

I know that over the years the prices have increased on labor and parts. Hey, it is life and everything works that way. Their are more quality fire arm parts, reloading equiptment, bullets ect than ever before to choose from. Right now if you have the money in your pocket for a custom build it is decisions, decisions, decisions because their is so much to choose from.

This leads me to my post. I have had builds from 98 percent of your top builders at one time. I am not here to call any one out nor bad mouth any companies. They build accurate quality stuff. This comes to my question. How in the dickens on a Remington action custom build using McMillan stock, custom BDL bottom metal, factory trigger, custom barrel ect cost 5000.00 plus dollars to build. Yea, no names but I see people pay 6000.00 for a Remington action based custom rifle. I am sorry, but when you have a total of 2000.00 and less in parts and 3000.00 to 4000.00 in labor, well, I just think the screw is backed out quite a bit to pay that kind of money. Has it just come down to greed? Their are so many great smiths out their today to choose from. I will start hanging onto the things I have because if these type prices start to become the norm my days of having anything built are over.
Click to expand...

We are close to the same age and I see the same thing.

Here is my solution:
Kelbly Atlas action Rem 700 footprint or I use older 40x actions that I find used. $600-$1000
Bobby Hart MBR Laminate with aluminum bedding block $500
Jewel trigger $230
Bartlein or Rock Creek nut barrel $500
Leupold picatinny rail $50

Assemble myself.
 
I owned a guitar shop for a year. I worked with a 22 year old luthier that everyone convinced that his router cut Stratocaster bodies were better than the CNC cut ones you could buy from Allparts in Texas. He charged triple.

They weren't.

He smoked a lot of dope and drank a lot. But he could market that "hand made art" thing like you have never seen... It was all marketing. Musicians eat that crap up. But they are poor. And their broke asses end up playing a Chinese Strat they bought in a garage sale.

Why I no longer own a guitar store.
 
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Hey Dan,

I couldn’t agree more. I was hunting with a good friend this fall who is one of the best guides in Arizona and New Mexico. I had a nice custom rifle with me and he was having fun checking it out and enjoyed shooting it. Then he started talking about buying a certain custom package from a company we all know. They wanted north of 11k for the rifle, optics, range finder, custom loads and a pelican case. I told him he could get all of the same for much less built by some of the best in the business.

Rifle with a custom action built by one of the best - 4,000.00
Nightforce - 1800.00
Rings and mounts - 200.00
Kilo 2400 - 1500.00
Pelican case 300.00

That’s 7800.00, that means your paying 4,000.00 for a 100 rounds and load development, I told him I’d do that for free on the weekend.

Once we did the math he was glad he didn’t send a deposit. I think a lot of these companies who are getting premium prices are benefitting from the hype and the guy who has always wanted a nice rifle but really hasn’t built enough rifles or has not researched pricing to know any better. I’m like you, I enjoy having rifles built, I once spent too much early on for a rifle that didn’t shoot very well at all. It left such a nasty taste in my mouth that if I think about it very hard the taste comes back real quick.

It is amazing what some of these guys are getting for their work. However it is America and if you can pull it off more power to you but I have to believe if you get to greedy it’ll catch up with you at some time in the future.

I should add, it’s amazing how well priced some of these guys are for their work. I’m using three gunsmiths who have delivered in every way and sometimes I’m pleasantly surprised the value their work represents.
 
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urbanrifleman said:
I owned a guitar shop for a year. I worked with a 22 year old luthier that everyone convinced that his router cut Strat bodies were better than the ones you could buy from Allparts. He charged triple.

They weren't.

He smoked a lot of dope and drank a lot. But he could market that "hand made art" thing like you have never seen... It was all marketing. Musicians eat that crap up. But they are poor. And end up playing a Shinese Strat they bought in a garage sale.
Click to expand...
On the same 'note', I build acoutuc guitars...had one of the best known luthiers in the country play one and all he could say was "WOW"...Then he asked how much I charged for one, and I told him anywhere from $1000 to $1500. His immediate reaction was. "You'll never sell them for that amount. People will think they're no good. Double the price, and you'll be 5 years behind within 6 months". I guess if it cost more, it has to be better?
 
What's to get?Throwing money vs hard work has been the approach for a looong time?

Short story;30 years ago in go fast sportbike world,everyone was dropping $$$ on headers,and still do.I bought a Tig machine and with the tutorials from friends who sat at welding stations all day,and every class offered at CC.....Now,bikes get tossed,sold,whatever,I still have the skill set and a Tig(albeit nicer)....and can build "full systems",pert near blindfolded.Just sayin.
 
GaryL1959 said:
On the same 'note', I build acoutuc guitars...had one of the best known luthiers in the country play one and all he could say was "WOW"...Then he asked how much I charged for one, and I told him anywhere from $1000 to $1500. His immediate reaction was. "You'll never sell them for that amount. People will think they're no good. Double the price, and you'll be 5 years behind within 6 months". I guess if it cost more, it has to be better?
Click to expand...

Just like guns, there is a TINY market of rich folks who pay WHATEVER for gear. Just like guns. They are a TINY little group but very vocal about how they have the BEST of everything and you SUCK if you don't!!! The best guitar player in town has a Mexi Strat and Line 6 Spyder he bought at a pawn shop for 50 bucks and row of pedals he modded... His car is an old piece of crap, and he can't afford to pay for an apartment. No one cares... Cuz the boy can play...

I see this all over shooting. There is a very small group of people that tell everyone they MUST HAVE this or that unobtainium piece of gear, and without it you simply cannot compete. You might as well go home. I have watched SEVERAL of these people on Youtube (who mostly get all their stuff for free) tell everyone that if they can't measure their powder by the grain they simply cannot win... If they don't have this bench rest, you might as well go home.... On and on.

Covetousness is a SIN. And this country has made it into a VIRTUE. I mean there are entire shows on TV devoted to showing you all the things you CAN'T AFFORD!!!
 
urbanrifleman said:
Just like guns, there is a TINY market of rich folks who pay WHATEVER for gear. Just like guns. They are a TINY little group but very vocal about how they have the BEST of everything and you SUCK if you don't!!!

I see this all over shooting. There is a very small group of people that tell everyone they MUST HAVE this or that unobtainium piece of gear, and without it you simply cannot compete. You might as well go home. I have watched SEVERAL of these people (who mostly get all their stuff for free) tell everyone that if they can't measure their powder by the grain they simply cannot win... If they don't have this bench rest, you might as well go home.... On and on.

Covetousness is a SIN. And this country has made it into a VIRTUE. I mean there are entire shows on TV devoted to showing you all the things you CAN'T AFFORD!!!
Click to expand...
Welcome to the U.S.A.
 
This thread could only get better if company names were mentioned, lot of BS out there today, I think way more in the tactical crowd than this crowd. I had a friend trade for a package gun, I tried to help and bought it, under the guise it shot good. Yeah right, 2 weeks later after parting the thing out, I was out 1400 bucks. The clown builders even managed to mill on a Manners mini chassis and bed the stock, the only action that was going to fit back in was a Stiller, 1100 stock sold for 700, barrel with supposedly 50 rds down it hit the trash bin.
 
Dusty Stevens said:
Jesus himself couldnt build a remington worth $6000 or even $5000 but the guys that charge that much are busier than the guys that charge $2000 for the same rifle
Click to expand...

Any guy here with a little knowledge and experience can see thru the hoopla. I just chuckle when I see an overpriced gun. Some newbie might jump on it, thinking it will shoot in the ones, just sitting there, because it was built by some big name "gun guru". The thing that really gets me is the guy that buys it but doesn't even reload his own ammo. People will pay for a name. This is America and you're allowed to do that. Doesn't make it right. I got into making my own stocks because of the high prices they charge for a nice one.
 
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