I feel so much better about using my ChargeMaster 1500 now…

[fatelvis]

I was planning on upgrading my scale from my Chargemaster 1500 to one of the more accurate (and expensive) varieties, but after reading this, I think I’ll save my money and be happy!

Accuracy

I am often asked which scale I recommend, and whether the A&D FX is precise enough for long range shooting. This article aims to answer these questions: Is it really worth my time to perfect every...

autotrickler.weebly.com

 

[steve210]

Many of the absolutely got to reloading things don't amount to much on the target

 

[Charlie-NY]

I was planning on upgrading my scale from my Chargemaster 1500 to one of the more accurate (and expensive) varieties, but after reading this, I think I’ll save my money and be happy!

Accuracy

I am often asked which scale I recommend, and whether the A&D FX is precise enough for long range shooting. This article aims to answer these questions: Is it really worth my time to perfect every...

autotrickler.weebly.com

I bought a FX-120i because I wanted to know, definitively, if the charges thrown by my ChargeMaster Supreme were responsible for my varied SDs. The thing that I learned was that the ChargeMaster was dispensing much more accurately than I ever imagined, often dropping right to the exact kernel. Those that weren't exact were generally VERY close. I am only referring to charges where the display indicates that it didn't over or under throw.

Since I've got plenty of time, I now use the FX-120i to throw to within the nearest kernel but it has made much of a difference.

 

[209jones]

I'm much the same as Charlie-NY, I had my doubts about the Chargemaster, it was good, but, I didn't believe it for sure, so, picked up a V4. I like the V4 a lot, certainly satisfies the OCD, but, turns out my Chargemaster was within specs. Think it was F-Class John brought up an idea for using Chargemaster, or any other elec dispenser, trickle the last bit til it just rolls over to the charge wt. Have to remember they roll up or down at the .04 and .06 mark too, and allow a moment or two for it to react, some brands are a bit more sensitive than others, and some powders are heavier than .05 per grain.

 

[ebb]

I had some varying charges from my very old Chargemaster 1500. Was on the verge of getting something else, asked RCBS if there was a fix. They replied with a whole sheet of cautions and suggestions, wipe with a dryer sheet was top on the list. Now I wipe with a dryer sheet every time I use it, and it operates as new. I had a friend that was a member that hooked up a ground wire on his 1500 and attached it to the ground plug hole on the receptacle in the wall and he was convinced it helped.

 

[SSL]

I had some varying charges from my very old Chargemaster 1500. Was on the verge of getting something else, asked RCBS if there was a fix. They replied with a whole sheet of cautions and suggestions, wipe with a dryer sheet was top on the list. Now I wipe with a dryer sheet every time I use it, and it operates as new. I had a friend that was a member that hooked up a ground wire on his 1500 and attached it to the ground plug hole on the receptacle in the wall and he was convinced it helped.

Along the same idea, I use an elastic antistatic wrist band on the hopper and clipped to a grounded wire I stuck out from an outlet. These bands are commonly used as personal grounding equipment for people working on sensitive electronics and have alligator clips on the oposite end for ease of attachment. Eliminates static really well and a cheap solution.

 

[Doom]

This article is very good at tying the accuracy of the scale to the on target performance. It is actually a little generous about the performance of the 120i. Unfortunately the AnD manual specifies a repeatability of 0.001g which is .0154gn. This is a one standard deviation value. Additionally the scale resolution is 0.02gn. The linearity is +/- 0.002g or .0308gn which is a bias error which can be ignored if we are only using that one scale. In terms of precision/repeatability of the scale for comparison to accuracy (95%)of the Chargemaster the 120i is (2xSD)) + resolution or 2x.0154+.02 which is 0.0508gn or about 1/2 the repeatability/accuracy of the Chargemaster which is limited not by the electronics but the display resolution.

I am not dumping on the Fx-120i just clarifying its capability. Its weighing technology is superior to lower end scales and it is obviously more accurate.

The Chargemaster is a compromise solution to powder dispensing. The single dump tube doesn't handle the trickling job well. It tends to drop varying amounts of powder and this leads to both under and over charges and also to lighter or heavier charges when a large clump dumps and the scale reads the weight too quickly. This is due to hysteresis of the scale and the software timing. The 1500 with the software mods and straw modification can do quite well. The Supreme has the software internally to adjust the speed. My 1500 can do the following:

​

This is for 28 charges of 8208XBR. The reference scale is a Gem 20. Its performance is:

Test was 20 weights of a 60gn NBT bullet. That test also shows the improvement in the SD due to taring the scale before each weighing. This eliminates the scale drift that is undetectable when less than the scale resolution.

 

[Leo_B]

So if you're new and clueless the Chargemaster is the best thing since sliced bread and for optimum results set it to throw (desired charge - 0.1gr) then trickle in the balance?

 

[Doom]

So if you're new and clueless the Chargemaster is the best thing since sliced bread and for optimum results set it to throw (desired charge - 0.1gr) then trickler in the balance?

I don't think anyone said that. The higher end scales/dispensers have a big advantage, they are faster. Probably at least twice as fast or more. Of course they cost at least 2x as much or more. For us mortals that can't shoot in the teens or twenties the higher end dispensers are not going to improve our results on target much if at all. The whole point of this thread is that the perceived notions on the Chargemasters are inaccurate and they perform better than that. By all means if you want a higher end dispenser go for it.

 

[drop_point]

The other day I was developing a new load. I use a Super Trickler. The load was 0.4 gr apart and I forgot to reset my chronograph. The ten shots with two loads had an ES of 11 and an SD of 2.7 fps. Both groups were to the same POI and both under 0.2". 0.4gr is well within the resolution of the Chargemaster 1500. Sometimes it really doesn't matter all that much, but with the time and money I spend to compete, why not use the best I can afford?

 

[fatelvis]

The other day I was developing a new load. I use a Super Trickler. The load was 0.4 gr apart and I forgot to reset my chronograph. The ten shots with two loads had an ES of 11 and an SD of 2.7 fps. Both groups were to the same POI and both under 0.2". 0.4gr is well within the resolution of the Chargemaster 1500. Sometimes it really doesn't matter all that much, but with the time and money I spend to compete, why not use the best I can afford?

Additionally, I think some would say it looks like you were in the middle of a node

 

[SKWERLZ]

I didn’t buy my V3 because it’s more precise, I bought it because it’s soooo much faster and less temperamental when set up.

My average SD on my 7mm only got 1-2 numbers better from my old Hornandy LNL dispenser but far far less overcharges an light years faster.

 

[drop_point]

Additionally, I think some would say it looks like you were in the middle of a node

Exactly, and if that is the case, how important is using high-resolution scales?

 

[Doom]

Exactly, and if that is the case, how important is using high-resolution scales?

Because at long distance the velocity difference due to velocity differences can matter. Ultimately it depends on the distance and the on target requirements. So what does being in a node at 100 or 300 yds really mean? It means the rifle and shooter are launching the bullet on a consistent path even with small changes in velocity. We generally believe this is due to barrel harmonics.

AS for requirements. Ask a short range BR shooter what charge weight he is shooting and he might know. Ask him his velocity and you might get a definitive answer. Ask a 600 or 1000 yd F-Class shooter and the answers become much more definitive. Ask a 2 Mile shooter and you are in a totally different world.

Far too many people in my personal experience chase SD and ES when in the scope of their shooting it doesn't matter. Often when you ask them the effect of their SD or ES they end up looking more like the deer as opposed to the hunter!

 

[drop_point]

Because at long distance the velocity difference due to velocity differences can matter. Ultimately it depends on the distance and the on target requirements. So what does being in a node at 100 or 300 yds really mean? It means the rifle and shooter are launching the bullet on a consistent path even with small changes in velocity. We generally believe this is due to barrel harmonics.

AS for requirements. Ask a short range BR shooter what charge weight he is shooting and he might know. Ask him his velocity and you might get a definitive answer. Ask a 600 or 1000 yd F-Class shooter and the answers become much more definitive. Ask a 2 Mile shooter and you are in a totally different world.

Far too many people in my personal experience chase SD and ES when in the scope of their shooting it doesn't matter. Often when you ask them the effect of their SD or ES they ofter end up looking more like the deer as opposed to the hunter!

I am an F-Class shooter. I think you didn't quite grasp the statement fully in context of the previous post.

 

[Doom]

I am an F-Class shooter. I think you didn't quite grasp the statement fully in context of the previous post.

You are so correct! I should have traced back to your #10 post. I read that one but didn''t pick up you were the poster of #13.

 

[Bill Norris]

Because at long distance the velocity difference due to velocity differences can matter. Ultimately it depends on the distance and the on target requirements. So what does being in a node at 100 or 300 yds really mean? It means the rifle and shooter are launching the bullet on a consistent path even with small changes in velocity. We generally believe this is due to barrel harmonics.

AS for requirements. Ask a short range BR shooter what charge weight he is shooting and he might know. Ask him his velocity and you might get a definitive answer. Ask a 600 or 1000 yd F-Class shooter and the answers become much more definitive. Ask a 2 Mile shooter and you are in a totally different world.

Far too many people in my personal experience chase SD and ES when in the scope of their shooting it doesn't matter. Often when you ask them the effect of their SD or ES they end up looking more like the deer as opposed to the hunter!

I keep remembering the video of Erik Cortina shooting the 1 1/4 inch five shot group @ 1000 yds. with four of the shots being within 1/4 inch bug hole and the E S being 19 FPS. So, how much does the E S really matter ?

 

[big5ifty]

It makes no practical impact to have a scale that can weigh 1/10th of a kernel, when you have no method to separate a kernel into ten equal parts.

A scale that can ensure a consistent charge weight to one kernel is good enough.

And then you pour the charge into the case and one kernel bounces out and lands on the table. When you're done putting powder into cases, where do you think some of the kernels on the table come from ?

 

[big5ifty]

I keep remembering the video of Erik Cortina shooting the 1 1/4 inch five shot group @ 1000 yds.

according to my google-fu, this is from nbrsa.org, and is the standing world record.

SINGLE GROUP	LIGHT GUN 17 LBS	HEAVY GUN UNLIMITED LBS	LIGHT & HEAVY 2 GUN
FIVE SHOT GROUP 5 SHOTS	Bill Schrader 1.473 – 3/24/2002
TEN SHOT GROUP 10 SHOTS		Charles Greer 2.6566 -(100-10x) – 2/13/21

Unlucky that there were no independent witness verifications of the 1 1/4 inch group.

 

[Bill Norris]

according to my google-fu, this is from nbrsa.org, and is the standing world record.

SINGLE GROUP	LIGHT GUN 17 LBS	HEAVY GUN UNLIMITED LBS	LIGHT & HEAVY 2 GUN
FIVE SHOT GROUP 5 SHOTS	Bill Schrader 1.473 – 3/24/2002
TEN SHOT GROUP 10 SHOTS		Charles Greer 2.6566 -(100-10x) – 2/13/21

Unlucky that there were no independent witness verifications of the 1 1/4 inch group.

Well, he recorded it live so that is good enough for me. LOL.