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I can't shoot free recoil

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bradley Walker
  • Start date Start date

Bradley Walker

I can't shoot free recoil. It doesn't even seem like shooting.

I shot high power rifle for many years and we concentrated on cheek weld and butt placement. So I guess we hold hard in high power. I've shot groundhogs in the eye from 400 yards from a bipod with no rest bag... Again a hard hold.

No I'm just supposed to not touch the gun at all?

It just does make sense especially when I shoot heavy bullets. The gun just goes where it wants.

I don't get it. Any help would be appreciated.
 
One more thing... These stocks that were designed for 200 yard benchrest twist all over the place with these fast twist barrels. I have noticed that I am not the only person that has come to this conclusion.

I built a Rem 700 bolt gun in 1/8 twist and used a position stock. This gun would twist like mad compared to my space gun that had a tube fore end.
 
In my opinion, Bradley, free recoil is only viable with guns that are designed for it, in bags and rests that are designed for it. Most of these rifles weigh from 10.5 to 13.5 lbs., are well balanced, have 3" wide flat fore ends, stocks which track well in bags, and have very slow-twist barrels (1:13.5 up to 1:19 or so) that cut down on the torque rotation effect when firing.

I can find no way to shoot my F/TR .308 WCF with a 1:10 twist barrel in free recoil. I've actually had it rotate 90 degrees in the rest when using "no hands-on" free recoil.

With your years of shooting with "cheek weld", etc., you can understand that accurate shooting requires a level of consistency, like any other sport, where you do the exact same thing the exact same way every time. The easiest thing to do every time is ... nothing. No cheek weld, no hand grip, no "hard hold", and that is pretty much the de facto style in point-blank BR today.
 
Thank you for your post.

My latest rifle is a full blown bench gun. It has a 40x action, Shehane MBR stock with 3 inch fore end and a Kreiger LV barrel.

I have two barrels. A 1-14 223 ai and a 1-8 6br. The 6 br with 107 twists the crap out of the front rest. The 223 ai with the slow twist barely moves.

Maybe next barrel I should go way up in contour.
 
Nothing wrong with a hard hold if it works for you!

Semi-hold
A lot of guys shooting the 17-lb light guns with light-recoiling cartridge like the Dasher have evolved a style where the hand is contacting the stock, but there is no cheek weld and very minimal shoulder pressure. Basically the shooting hand goes around the stock and maybe the thumb puts some down pressure behind the tang.

The biggest aid you can get for bench shooting is one of those new stocks with 5" wide wings at the front. That really makes a difference. If you have a tactical rifle, try putting a flat plate under the forearm.

PM
 
I totally agree about the wide front stocks. As an engineer I would think that would make a huge difference.

It just seems that a long range gun needs to be built heavy and wide while a point blank gun can be built much smaller and lighter.
 
Quote from Bradley Walker: "I can't shoot free recoil. It doesn't even seem like shooting".
As mentioned above, it depends on (the weight of) your rifle & stock design/configuration.
It doesn't matter you can't shoot free recoil, the key is CONSISTENCY. With bipod, and in offhand shooting, you need to hold. No way you can shoot well free recoil with a bipod. Now in BR, it's your choice to shoot free recoil or with a light grip, or put your thumb behind the tang. But i have never seen a strong hold in BR shooting/match. (maybe it's just my ignorance).

Quote: "My latest rifle is a full blown bench gun. It has a 40x action, Shehane MBR stock with 3 inch fore end and a Kreiger LV barrel.

I have two barrels. A 1-14 223 ai and a 1-8 6br. The 6 br with 107 twists the crap out of the front rest. The 223 ai with the slow twist barely moves".


It's strange to me. (???)
You say that your rifle is a full blown bench gun. So (may) I assume that your rifle weighs somewhere in between 10.5 lbs to 13.5 lbs?
I shoot my .284win light gun (approx. 16.5 lbs including the scope, 1:9 twist, 180 gr bullet) free recoil, and it tracks like a dream for me. I also shoot it 'pinned' sometime (hard jam against the stopper). Oh yes, the stock has an extra wide front wings attachment (8" wide) BUT I suspect it wouldn't torque horribly without the front wings. (still never have chance to shoot it with the 3" stock configuration, anyway).
6BR & .223AI are small/much smaller cartridges than .284win.

How about to show your rifle & rest/bag setup, Bradley?
It must be something 'wrong' with your rifle or rest setup, I'm just guessing.

seb.
 
My rest is a Bald Eagle. The front bag is cordura (I cant remember the brand name but it is a bag maker) from Sinclair. My rear bag is a Protector with a rubber base and cordura ears.

It is pretty typical.

The rifle is a Rem 40x, Shehane MBR, and Kreiger LV barrel at 24". Scope is NF 12-42 x56 BR. I think it weighs about 14 lbs. I have no way to weigh it, I'm not taking it to the post office. ;)

In my opinion, the gun needs a brake or a heavier barrel.

How far should the gun slide before it hits your shoulder? Can I set the gun against my shoulder?
 
There are successful benchrest shooters that use widely different styles. There is no right or wrong, only what works for you. I think that many shooters think that the only way to get benchrest accuracy is to shoot free or almost free. This is not the case. Some very successful shooters hold their rifles, and some shoot pinned, others use a light hold, and still others shoot completely free. Free is the hardest to get right. The balance of the rifle, how it is stocked, and the bags that it is shot off of all have to be just right. The degree to which a rifle is internally damped also gets into the equation. A rifle can be built, set up, and shot perfectly, and if it is not sufficiently well damped, it will not shoot as well free as with some sort of hold. One of the main reasons for the success of stocks that are made from balsa and carbon fiber is the damping that that balsa affords. The reason that more shooters don't use these stock is quite simple, there is a long wait, and they are expensive.
 
The only guns I ever shot free recoil were the PPC's.

My 1K guns, I pin the gun to the front stop lightly. Be sure you don't try to steer the gun with your shoulder. I rest my trigger hand on a small brick bag so it's not hanging in no man's land. Inconsistent hand pressure, and/or laying your thumb on the tang is a sure way to find vertical........
 
alf said:
The only guns I ever shot free recoil were the PPC's.

My 1K guns, I pin the gun to the front stop lightly. Be sure you don't try to steer the gun with your shoulder. I rest my trigger hand on a small brick bag so it's not hanging in no man's land. Inconsistent hand pressure, and/or laying your thumb on the tang is a sure way to find vertical........

I agree with this.

Bradley Walker,
I just built myself a 11 lb. 6brx for 1k competition, I was having a terrible time getting it to shoot, I was trying to shoot it simi free recoil, no shoulder contact light finger hold on the palm swell (pistol grip) at 500 yards I was lucky to consistently shoot 3" groups, I finally set up a video camer and taped myself shooting :o the gun was all over the place, I ended up with light shoulder contact gun against the stop, tightened up in the front bag a little more then usual, no thumb on the tang but fairly good consistent grip on the palm swell, palm of hand resting on hand bag. I try not to stear with the shoulder but I definitely have to drive it, try videoing yourself, you might learn something about your gun and yourself. I was shooting poorly 10 or 15 years ago and videoed myself and found I had developed a flinch do to lack of hearing protection, I don't know if I would have ever found it without the camera, I had been trying to figure out what was going on for weeks with no success and also had friends watch me shoot and they never caught it,....my eyes blinked as I shot,..every time I shot, of course my face muscles moved, I was shooting a .222 sako with standard hunting style stock so I had to hold it (cheek on stock) after all these years I still have to concentrate to not blink, it was a tough habit to break.
Wayne.
 
I don't shoot free recoil either but I'm not a benchrest shooter; I'm a big game and varmint hunter.

I have found, at least for me, that holding the forearm produces less torque rotation and much better on target hits especially with light sporter weight hunting rifles. Even off shooting sticks (the cross stick type), holding the forearm works better for me except for heavy varmint rifles. For the latter, I hold the sticks as close to where they cross as possible which in essence elminates much of the free recoil.
 
Ronb said:
Bradley, What is the pull weight and brand of trigger? Ron

It's a 40x. It's light but not 2 oz. it wiggles from side to side. I've never had a trigger do that. It seems all the 40x do that?
 
I guess I shoot pinned. I never heard the term but that sounds right.

I guess I do don't like that scope heading for my face. :)

I wish my stock was shaped like my Anschutz. I like the hard dropped pistol grip that gets your hand behind the trigger better instead of on top.

I also had discovered that the gun tracked better with the front bag squeezed tighter. The gun still slides in the cordura but it twists less.

I sure appreciate all the help guys. I have a lot better idea what is "normal" now. I thought I was just a spaz....
 
Bradley Walker said:
I guess I shoot pinned. I never heard the term but that sounds right.

I guess I do don't like that scope heading for my face. :)

I wish my stock was shaped like my Anschutz. I like the hard dropped pistol grip that gets your hand behind the trigger better instead of on top.

I also had discovered that the gun tracked better with the front bag squeezed tighter. The gun still slides in the cordura but it twists less.

I sure appreciate all the help guys. I have a lot better idea what is "normal" now. I thought I was just a spaz....

You couldn't be,......I have the market on that :D
Wayne.
 
Bradley,

First I'm NOT an expert in anyway. I always consider myself as a 'newbie'.... so you can ignore me here.
However your action, barrel, stock, rest, rear bag, scope - all sound 'ok' / no problem, to me.
Your gun also weight about 14 lbs. (could be more with its wood lam stock & scope).
I really see NO reason why your gun 'twists all over the place'...to loan your term.
Even with unknown trigger & pull weight. (trigger/pullweight has nothing to do with twist or torque, it's just the way how you shoot it).
Even with the 1:8 twist barrel. 6BR is a little caliber w/ bullet somewhere in between 90-110 gr only. It should not torque much, especially that your gun weighs 14 lbs or more.
Your stock (Shehane MBR) is designed for bench/LR shooting so I don't see any problem with it - it must be quite stable & solid & should track nice/straight, too. -- So whether your rear bag (Protector) has bunny or rabbit ears.

*I have NEVER shot a 6BR & .223AI myself, anyway... but I shoot my .284 & some more others, without having problem like you said.
And I'm not trying to tell you to shoot free recoil (etc) here. Like Boyd said, it depends on your shooting style & preference. It's just strange to me that your gun twists much, and made me think Why?

My suggestion is, try to shoot your gun with different rest/front bag when you have chance!
Just shoot the way you do with your gun, same hold etc.
Make sure the rest & rear bag are parallel / inline. (this is very important)
Also try different side tension. (but normally you don't need extra tight side tension, as it would make your gun to not slide/track properly).
If your front bag is an Edgewood, forget my suggestion - it's the best front bag in the world!
I'm just wondering with your front bag now....well, just in case....
Also check if your rest is tight / not wobble etc.

To shoot well, you need all things well. I mean ALL things.

Evaluate/analyze your shooting technique, too.

By the way, a normal suppressor or muzzle break wouldn't help... unless you make special ports to counter the twist. (but then you'll get your bullets shoot all over the place).
Remember, in this case you need your gun to not twist - not to reduce the 'crack' or recoil.

Hope this help,
seb.
 
seb,

I would hope you don't have any problems with your rifle twisting/torquing.. that thing looks like you have a 4x8 sheet of plywood hanging off the front of it! :)

when are you going to build one of those for me?
 

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