Hard hold or free recoil ?

[No i deer]

I think too many different guns causes technique issues and there likely all different shapes,sizes,calibres etc etc which causes strange poi.
I had similar last weekend. Shot a bughole 3 shot group checking my load as the action came out the stock for a paint job..
Group shot a 1/4 right and 1/2 inch high..
Adjusted down only as I had a full value wind right wind and shots went 2 clicks low and 3 right and strait away this doesn't add up and I thought it's something I'm doing as the 2nd group was a bughole the same as the first group ..
It's positional zero shifts somehow. Definately shooter error

 

[Joe Salt]

Did you torque the action screws the same.

Joe Salt

 

[No i deer]

Did you torque the action screws the same.

Joe Salt

I didn't know what the torque settings were before I had it out the stock.. I did try upping the torque wrench settings to find it but it wasnt very helpful so I just did them up to what was suggested. I can't remember now possibly 30 inch lbs
The action had been bedded in the stock years ago.

 

[284winner]

I do not want to start an argument, but my feelings are shooting free recoil is not shooting. You are simply setting the gun up on the rest and touching the trigger an the gun dose the rest. You kind of just go along for the ride and see what happens. If you are going to shoota gun ? you need to be holding the gun and controlling what you are aiming at.

Sorry if this offends anyone.

I Don't think any offense can be taken by your opinion. At least IMO. That's's what I'm asking for basically. With today's heavy guns and shooting techniques, it's almost like not shooting anyway. My particular shooting is hunting in most cases. My guns are 8-11 lbs in most cases and they don't have stocks made for riding bags or sliding from recoil. I think they tend to require more contact by the shooter than do bag rider type set ups. I did find out that less contact with most of my rifles seems better than more contact. Exception being the big caliber heaviest recoiling rifles.

 

[ronsatspokane]

I do not want to start an argument, but my feelings are shooting free recoil is not shooting. You are simply setting the gun up on the rest and touching the trigger an the gun dose the rest. You kind of just go along for the ride and see what happens. If you are going to shoota gun ? you need to be holding the gun and controlling what you are aiming at.

Sorry if this offends anyone.

Doubt that it offends anyone. What it does do is demonstrate preference. There are those who believe that anyone shooting when their heart rate is not up to 160 in variable winds at variable distances in various positions driven by a timer are not really shooting. As in PRS. Then there are those who think that shooting in temps above 0 C without your heart beating out of your chest are not really shooting. As in Biathlon. Then there are those who think that if you are not shooting 1 MOA targets at 1000 yards, you are not really shooting. As in F Class. Then there are those who think that anyone who uses optics is not really shooting. As in cross the course until recently when 4.5 power optics were permitted. Bottom line being that there are nearly as many preferences as there are shooters and each preference is a different game.

My preference is for the zen of F Class. Most of the work is done up front in rifle building, load dev, body position practice, trigger technique, gun tracking, learning recoil characteristics of your chosen caliber and when you lay down at that firing line, the science of shooting crosses over into art as you attempt to read what the wind is doing between your location and that tiny 1 MOA 10 ring or that half MOA X ring. Sometimes your read is correct. Sometimes you misread the conditions and drop points. Sometimes you're so far off understanding what the conditions really are that your bullets are off the target or landing on the adjacent target.

The good thing is that there are so many different games to choose from. I shot a cross the course fun match a couple of weeks ago. Off hand, no sling, 2 MOA 10 ring. It was ugly. Different skills that require practice in a different set of problems that need to be solved. Was fun though.

 

[LVLAaron]

I believe it comes down to what you can do consistently. A hard hold will be difficult to keep consistent.

When I shoot my AR (long range), I keep a pretty hard hold between my shoulder and the bipod. I'm experimenting a bit with this one.

When I'm shooting my TR gun it's free recoil. My cheek is on the riser just enough to feel the it on my stubble. My upper body is very relaxed/loose and the gun is maybe touching my shirt but not my body.

 

[DDriller]

With an AR always a hard hold. With my bolt guns not free recoil but a light hold.

 

[SRP Shooter 1]

My 300 Weatherby Magnum , in a Brown Precision stock, is a hunting rifle. If you do a free recoil hold with it you will get eye every time. At the bench or in the field it does not matter.

K

 

[skeeljc]

With an AR always a hard hold. With my bolt guns not free recoil but a light hold.

I tried free recoil with my 12 pound AR. It promptly doubled!

 

[Lefty Trigger]

I can guarantee you that all my weird shots is the butt on the end of the stock!

 

[Hermantk]

Just returned from the range where I ran some loads down range. Decided to see how much groups changed both in POI and group size. Boy was I surprised. Seems groups were above and inch at 100 yards with a hard hold but .2 with free recoil. Same for everything out to 500 yards. All shots were high also when held hard vs free. There's definitely a huge difference in zeroing this rifle when using either shooting method. I've pretty much always shot light hold/ free recoil but still holding the rifle for stabilization when hunting. Using the free recoil is hard in hunting situations unless on a bipod.

 

[Hermantk]

I would suggest that you zero your rifle using the same hold as you will use when hunting. As you noticed, there were differences not only in the group size but also in the point of impact, ESPECIALLY if the difference in POI is meaningful.

 

[284winner]

I would suggest that you zero your rifle using the same hold as you will use when hunting. As you noticed, there were differences not only in the group size but also in the point of impact, ESPECIALLY if the difference in POI is meaningful.

That was what the experiment did. Without using that information for future use, it would be a wasted test. Conclusion...Some rifles shoot better with a harder hold and some lighter.

 

[Hermantk]

I think you will find that to be very personal as well. The rifle that shoots best for you in hard hold may well shoot poorly for the next shooter who has a different physical build (arm length, strength, weight etc) than you. But i would still maintain that one is always better off zeroing one's rifle using the same hold as s/he will use when shooting and, further, that one will not get the best results when zeroing in a rifle that another shooter will be using.

 

[284winner]

I think you will find that to be very personal as well. The rifle that shoots best for you in hard hold may well shoot poorly for the next shooter who has a different physical build (arm length, strength, weight etc) than you. But i would still maintain that one is always better off zeroing one's rifle using the same hold as s/he will use when shooting and, further, that one will not get the best results when zeroing in a rifle that another shooter will be using.

It's a funny thing really if you think about it the more technical we get as shooters. Zeroing in a rifle isn't just that simple unless it's for and only for that person zeroing it in. For example as you stated, I can zero it in using my best technique for my personal accuracy and letting a buddy borrow it for a ground hog shoot, he may miss half the hogs he shoots at simply because his technique is different from mine. I suppose everyone has their favorite shooting form, style, technique and or hold. I know mine but all are accurate enough to kill game animals with very good results. No being a competitor, I can't say that for shooting that discipline.

 

[F Class John]

I can guarantee you that all my weird shots is the butt on the end of the stock!

And here I always thought it was the loose nut behind the trigger?

 

[DangerRanger]

I shoot different rifles differently.

I’ve absolutely seen a hard push/ loading a bipod change point of impact vs sitting without pressure on a bipod/bag on a lr hunting rifle

find what you like and find what that rifles likes and hope y’all get along

 

[ChrisNZ]

In my experience, it comes down to experimentation and what you can get away with. My heavy .223 varminter doesn't really care how I hold it within limits. My .280AI LR deer gun definitely needs a firmer hold and I normally lightly grip the bipod at its mounting point - it knocked over two deer three weeks ago in consecutive shots: 547 and 565yds.
My .284 F Open gun definitely doesn't like firm cheek pressure which tends to cause vertical variations. I've settled on a just touch cheek pressure and light shoulder pressure. Here's how she went at 1000 last Saturday:

 

[AckleymanII]

Through the years, I have found it very hard to go back and forth between hunting sporter rifles, and 13lb table guns, free recoil. Muscle memory is a bitch.

Bi pods were the first thing to go, also. Newer models I am sure are a great improvement.