How Would You Start a New Shooting Organization

[riverwolf1]

If you belonged to a shooting organization that hosted several types of shooting and they were a bunch of shooting elite snobs that looked down their noses at the other disciplines and you wanted to start a new organization, that removed these disciplines how would you go about it?
I think once started, lots of folks would buy into this new organization, simply because they are basically ignored in the current organization and the only reason the other organization is adding the new discipline, is because their shooter roles are sinking and adding the new discipline, brings in more new members and subsequently the cash from memberships and fee's even though the leaders of this organization despise these disciplines, and have stated so publicly! The leadership is totally un-approachable.
I really need some help here, because I am willing to do the work to get this going, I figure I need a charter and by-laws, but do I need any licensing? Then I need a to develop the rules, which could be extracted from the existing organizations rules with a few minor modifications. I think forming a board of directors or regional reps would also be one of the first orders of start up! Am I on the right track here or not?

 

[Larryh128]

I don't know if I could effectively answer your questions, BUT what I do know from experience, IF you don't like how an organization is being run, get elected to the board. If you still can't effect any change, get some people that share your opinions elected as well. More than once my toe has landed on someone's rear after getting a controlling vote. If you have issues with them, quite likely there are others that will support you. A lot easier to effect change from within than start a competing organization.

 

[riverwolf1]

Larry,
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. however this organization has been around for a long time, and the upper echelon is entrenched and there is no board of directors! they have regional directors of which there is only one vote from our discipline, and they are not going to ever allow those ratio's to change. Its what keeps their discipline in charge of everything that happens within the organization. I know I could garner the support, because there are a good number of disenchanted people in our discipline!There have been numerous discussion of breaking away, but no one ever seems to do anything about it. Now they have just added another venue there will be a larger opportunity to break away from them.

 

[effendude]

From one rabble rouser to another , some more information would be helpful. Your profile is vague enough to ensure your anonymity.

I was at the forefront of bringing F-class to my state, and had no problem calling out those elitists who at first looked down on the sport. These people were my friends until I put a scope on some of my rifles, then the comments started. Most were behind peoples backs. I callled them out on it, and the problem has greatly been reduced.

Now there are as many F-class as there are sling shooters at most events and we respect each others sports. The matches wouldn't be nearly as much fun with half as many participants.

Good Luck,
Scott

 

[riverwolf1]

Scott,
sometimes when your trying to ellicit information,low profile is the best profile! I am not referring to f class but more on the lines of Benchrest with a capital B. I have shot in many venues and am a Distinguished Marksman and spent a number of summers at Camp Perry. From the mid 90's until now Hunter Benchrest and a lot of group shooting. Hunter Benchrest has been shrinking in numbers for the past 10 years, The group shooting community as a whole has railed against Hunter and VFS, they hate it for the most part, and want little to do with it, but they gladly modify their thinking when it comes to finding ways to bring in more dollars while the number of group shooters is dropping like a rock! Their arrogance is on dispaly all the time, just go to a BR match and mention Hunter or VFS, their reponse, (and I have heard it with my own ears,) especially in Phoenix is no way in hell are we ever going to shoot that here! Its time for score shooters to have their own organization in my opinion, I would think they would be tired of the organization they are currently in and would want an organzation that best represents their views and not those of a bunch of tired old tyrants that never want anything to change! 208-965-1992 thats my cell phone if anyone wants to discuss this I would invite you to call me, I think its time for a new start for score shooters!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Look into UBR. http://ultimatebenchrest.com/ Website is kinda plain but gets the job done. It's strictly score shooting and has a defined factory class. It's all caliber neutral too. The caliber neutral aspect allows PPC's and 22 cf's to be on a level playing field in terms of scoring, with the 30's...the best shooter that day wins. The factory class is bringing in new shooters to the game while modified and unlimited insure that there is a class for anyone that wants to shoot a gun they already have. It's inexpensive and easy to get started. Contact Danny Hensley. His contact info is on the linked site. They just started last year and are growing, adding ranges and shooters to the game. --Mike Ezell
Just wanted to add that custom class is where you'll see mostly benchrest rifles in UBR. Modified is limited to factory actions, but just about anything can be done to it...including a sleeve and BR stock. Unlimited is as the name implies....anything 30 caliber and down is god to go.

 

[effendude]

Riverwolf,
The situation you describe doesn't sound encouraging. I have never shot a Benchrest match. I did win $80 this January in Mexico when the outfitter had all of us check our zeroes, I suggested $20 a shot, closest takes the pot. Wait, I haven't been paid yet!

Seriously though, a couple thoughts. First, this organization must have regular meetings if it is chartered in anyway. Politely ask in writing to be placed on the agenda. Attend the meeting, bring as many like minded shooters as you can. Be respectful and discuss your concerns at the meeting. If a motion can be made to change a policy or rule that will solve your challenge, make it. With a second, it must be discussed. If your motion doesn't pass, remain polite. You can often try again at a later date. I have learned that sometimes it take much time to turn a big ship. Simply discussing the matter will get other members to think about the issue and that is a good thing.

Second, when talking to other members whether they are for or against your issue, remember that the shooting sports are not experiencing any wild growth. All organizations need to work together to help each other. There is strength in numbers. As an example, I don't think F-class would be nearly as popular as it is now, if it wouldn't have been respectful of its origins in HP shooting. This allowed it to be more easily recognized by the NRA. There were times when becoming a separate organization may have looked good, but I am glad it remained a HP discipline.

In closing, I would recommend that you keep trying resolve your issues with the BR organization. It may take much time, but in the end, the organization will be stronger. As hard as it sounds, patience is a great tool.

Scott

 

[glo]

I'm with all of you 100% that want to better your shooting sport.

I don't know much about starting organizations but usually it takes bucks or folks that will get together and stay together. I think you start a corporation like a nonprofit [501c(3)]

I stated off in F-class to learn 1000yd and Palma. Also to amass all the equipment need to become a slinger.

However, I infer what is meant about the F-class shooters; which many of my fellow shooters and I call call “Belly Benchrest Shooters”. If not for the HP community they to would probably become less than humble. And I for one wish that the F-class had not gone in the direction it has. The move from modified rifles to full on light bench rest rifles. Two major changes had to be made. One was going to 600yd target to make the X ring smaller and the introduction of the F/TR class. Personally I don't think either of those decisions made our sport any better. As I remember, the reason the F-class came to be was to bring folks into HP long range shooting by calling it the “Fun Class”.

I think it is human nature want to“controlled” what you have and not be to inviting. I support the development of any new organization that will make our sport of shooting better.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Hunter and Commercial classes split off from BR. I purposed a modified class for folks that wanted/needed to change stocks (hunting/varmint type) and/or rebarrel. That idea was ignored as to restrictive. Go figure... :-\

 

[serial # 001]

Riverwolf,

A fellow invited me to go shoot silhuet. I used to hunt with a Freedom Arms .454. On the first round I came to the line and put the bottom of the pistol grip in my weak hand with that elbow against my ribcage exactly like when I fire at game. Before I could get the first shot off an officail came over and told me I could not use an artifical rest. I was flabergasted for a moment. I looked round to see what he was talking about. He said I couldn't put my elbow against my ribcage. I informed him that wasn't an artificial rest it was me.

I figured he was more into control than I was into shooting this sport. We hunters need a sport where we can play with our toys the way we play with our toys.

 

[riverwolf1]

Scott, Mike, & Glo,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to your responses,its been a busy morning!
Scott I really do see the benefits of continuing to work with the current organization, and makes perfect sense,especially the part about when you talk to other shooters that may or may not be on your side. Certainly you are on target with the fact that all most all shooting sports aren't gathing much new support. When you have a problem in our organization you have to pass it on to a regional director and he takes it to the annual meeting which is attended by only regional directors, president ,vice president, secretary and treasure and committe chairs. They have an annual meeting of all members and it is held at the nationals generally at the end of the day, and that is probably where you can get the support to have changes made that then would be presented to the annual officers meeeting.
Mike I kinda like the UBR system but it would have to be sold to all the VFS and Hunter shooters out west and the only item I am not sure about is the caliber neutral area. I often read your post's over at brnchrestcentral and have to say you are thoughtful and always present great replys that are both helpful and insightful. I will probably contact the guy that started UBR and see if we could try their match format in our area. It might just be what a bunch of us are looking for. My favorite philosophy is" the mind is like a parachute it works best when its open".
Glo as aformer HP shooter and like you said f class lets shooters integrate into the HP venue. In our case we have an old group of guys that want to control all the score shooting classes, but in all actuality I think they would be glad to see the score shooting venues totally off of their plate. I think the best way to accomplish this would be to have a seperate board made up of only VFS&Hunter shooters but still housed under the parent organization, we set our own rules and we don't have to have group shooters lobbying against rule changes in a sport they never compete in. Due to Scott's earlier post caused me to look outside the box and the statement I just made makes the most sense if you want to keep the shooters united and not be devisive! Thanks guys this stuff realy has me thinking through this problem with a lot clearer picture of what needs to happen!
I also like the fact that a true factory class for Hunting rifles should be part of every VFS & Hunter BR shoot. It is the only way these shooting sports can survive, minimal investment that brings in new shooters with their on class, and their own set of trophies.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I highly recommend you contact Danny. He'll make it very easy to start having matches and that's really the only way anyone will know if you/they like it or not. Tell him we spoke here about it...I doubt he'll hold that against ya . Heck, I was against caliber neutral at first, too. It's very inexpensive for the range to become UBR registered for the year, and shooters will like it because there is no "shooter" membership fee. Just pay the fee set by the match director to shoot..and have fun.
That BRC crowd can be a tough one but all of them that I have met(IIRC ;D ) are great folks.--Mike

 

[markr]

This whole scenario sounds hauntingly familiar to my club! This is one of if not the biggest problems with the shooting sports today...at the club level!

 

[butchlambert]

All organizations have disgruntled members. The organization in which you speak is run by board members that the members elect. If you don't like it either run for office, campaign against them, or start your own club. Rules are in place to handle problems.

 

[riverwolf1]

Butch,
Like everyone that post on this forum,your entitled to your opiinion, and while you assunptions may be correct,in therory in practice they are a bit flawed. several years back I had a problem at a match,the match director wasn't running matches in accordance with the NBRSA rules, ie; no referees, no scales ,no match agreement and not sending money or results to Pat Ferrell! While shooting in one of these matches I made several written protests that were forwarded to the NBRSA, they swept everthing under the rug sent my protest fee back and said I wasn't a shooter so I couldn't file a protest, however they failed to look in their own magazine where my name was listed with a score beside it! Disgruntled perhaps but I continued to shoot and support their organization, but now I have decided to vote with my wallet, I am simply not going to shoot anymore! We have a few local clubs that shoot VFS and hunter that are not registered with any organizations, and I don't have to spend a bunch of money to go shoot. If you pay attention to the way the NBRSA board does business it's next to impossible to penetrate! An example is the recent departure of Denny Andrews the NW director, the board already had a person slated for that seat and guess what thats the person that is now the NW director! Thank you for your input and I sure like how smooth my Farley works with the new tension screws you sent me about a month ago, if I had known how much smoother the operation was going to be I would have replaced them several years ago!

 

[dreever]

My hat goes off to you because you are willing to step up. Usually everybody wants to shoot and complain, but nobody wants to take charge or even help for that matter.
Good Luck!

Danny

 

[butchlambert]

Glad you like your tension screws.
I have never ran into the problems that you speak of in our region. We all have a voice. The director goes to the National meetings knowing what we voted on.