21st century
How to identify donuts
- Thread starter anaconda
- Start date
mike06
US ARMY 1970-1977
I was just asking because I have a K&M expander I also use a Forster Bushing Bump Die and a Redding Bushing die I do use the expander ball on both and they work for me. I know many others who remove the ball.
Ive always used the expander balls until I started turning necks and had to buy a mandrel so ive been kind of experimenting with mandrel to see if there was any difference. I turned necks also to see if I could end up with more consistent tension and accuracy and as of now I'm not having to good of luck lol
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Ended up cleaning up necks again and it solved my issues. Turner was on original setting I turned them at. when I ran them through it very little came off until I got to shoulder junction then I was surprised how much brass made it's way back up. I did cut into shoulder junction when cases were new I'm thinking now I shoulda took a larger cut out of shoulder junction from the start.
many year ago I said I have cases when fired will never form a donut; after that is listed two more circumstances that cause donuts. After that I said the donuts created by shooters on this forum are created by bad habits. After that? This forum could not move beyond members staking out their claims on their impertinence, nothing has changed.
First the reloader must sort out the importance of stretch and or flow, or is it both. I have not found a reloader that has sorted out the thing about the shoulder, the problem starts out when the reloader insist he can move the shoulder back.
F. Guffey
I have said the shoulder the reloader starts with is not the same shoulder he finishes with; reloaders insist they move the shoulder back and many reloaders have convinced themselves they can bump the shoulder back. I insist it is impossible to move a shoulder back with a die that has case body support. If moving the shoulder back was possible why can't someone explain how.
I would really be interested to learn how you have managed to filter pressure so that it only pushes bullets forward and not brass.
Again; Reloaders insist the shoulder moves forward, I say moving the shoulder forward is a bad habit. One member insist the firing pin drives the case forward until the shoulder of the case contacts the shoulder of the chamber. He also insist the case shortens between the shoulder and case head as much as .005" before the firing pin bust the primer. I have had fail to fire cartridges that have been hammered with 4 different firing pins without the case shortening the case between the shoulder and case head.
I do not filter or micro manage, I do claim there is a sequence of events that happens between pulling the trigger and the bullet leaving the case reloaders do not understand. I had a heavy poster claim no one can convince him the case locks on to the chamber when the cartridge is fired.
Filter? Moving the shoulder forward when fired is a bac habit. And then there is stretch and or flow or it is both? And then there is the rear of the case between the head of the case and the case body. I am the fan of locking the case to the chamber and I am the fan of forming a shoulder that is not the same shoulder I started with. I am the fan of my shoulder becoming part of the case body and the new shoulder being formed from part of the old shoulder.
F. Guffey
Brians356
Silver $$ Contributor
There's always at least a slight "donut" (**) and a very minor one is largely irrelevant, even if you are seating past it. You don't want to cut too deep into the shoulder just to avoid a minor donut. I always fire a case once before neck turning. If your particular load combination tends to produce pronounced donuts down the line, then either ream out the donuts when they become pronounced enough (judgement call), or re-turn necks as some are discussing here.
(** Consider that neck walls of a new case are tapered - thinner at the case mouth than near the shoulder junction. That doesn't really comprise a "donut" but it's something of a subtle difference, as it still creates more resistance to seating the bullet at the junction, and arguably makes neck tension less uniform and less predictable.)
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Ok thanks guys I appreciate your help this is my first time turning necks and tight neck chamber I figured there was a learning curve glad this site is available. So even if your not seating into neck shoulder junction brass flow up the neck is still a problem since it decreases neck clearence?
Brians356
Silver $$ Contributor
I feel if you are not seating past the donut, it should't expand and cause clearance problems, but in a really tight neck it might.
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If youre seeing any signs youre already over pressure. Thats the brass flowing into the ejector hole. Heed the warnings.
Joe, you could pay attention, I said I have three categories, long before that I said the most common cause of donuts are bad habits. I also said I have cases that will never form donuts etc..
Joe, carry on.
F. Guffey
Anaconda, it seems Joe is more desperate for attention than I am so I told him to "carry on".
I have cases that will never form a donut, we have reloaders that claim they reload and fire one case 45 times without serious after effects. They did get upset with me because I wanted to know what the case weighed when they started and what the case weighed when they finished, so I deducted they applied for and received some kind of an exemption to stretch and or flow or both. AND! There was no one that understood the question.
F. Guffey
This is where I'm at now after cleaning the necks up. 66.4gr h1000 180gr hybrids .040 jump 700 yard group off a bipod and rear bag. I'm going to do further testing but I'm thinking i should leave it alone from here. I know it will shoot tighter wasn't my best day of shooting wind off and on gust should of payed attention to the wind a little more but out of the different seating depths i tryed .040 jump was best. As far as plunger marks now im not seeing any
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muleman69
USMC -1st marine Div. RVN
How much does the die run from porter normally? So do the pins have enough taper to expand my necks. This sounds good and should be all I need.
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