Avoiding Donuts

[South Pender]

This will seem like a pretty amateur question (and I'm pretty much of an amateur), but I've read about donuts forming in cases at the neck-shoulder junction. So I'm hoping to avoid them.

I'm loading 6PPC in a rifle that is really more of a varmint than benchrest rifle. I have turned the necks of my cases (Norma) right up into the shoulder of the case. I plan to use LE Wilson neck-sizing dies with the bushing that resizes about .18" of the neck. Do I need to be concerned about the formation of donuts in this case? The brass will never be resized to closer than .11" of the shoulder. I haven't checked the Wilson full-length bushing die, but I assume that it too will size back just about .18' from the case mouth.

 

[jackieschmidt]

The answer is despite your best efforts, the donut will appear. It is a basic fact of the expanding of the case upon ignition and the resizing of the case for the next firing. Metal tends to migrate to that area.

The vast majority of 6PPC shooters (maybe all) just ignore it. As you stated, the shank of your bullet never gets anywhere near it With the common bullets used in the 6PPC.

Of course, if you are using a really long bullet, and the shank gets into it, that is bad. That is why the vast majority of accuracy minded shooters use a bullet/ throat combo that simply makes The donut a moot point.

There are machines that tout “getting rid of the donut” during the initial prep, which they will before the first firing. But then it’s down hill. If you decided to put together a combination predicated on this thinking, that being a long bullet without a long enough throat, where the shank does encounter the donut, you will be headed for grief in a few firings.

 

[Ray123]

Ya don't need to be concerned with the donut if it's not touching the bullet when seating...hold the donut in the boattail area ..unless your COAL demands you seat deeper. I remove the donut in a lathe collet in a Hardinge lathe with a tiny sharp carbide boring tool..case held in case holder, where you tap in, & tap out, mine are homemade but Wilson would work. Makes a nice clean parallel uniform neck inside diameter for seating bullets.

 

[Webster]

This will seem like a pretty amateur question (and I'm pretty much of an amateur), but I've read about donuts forming in cases at the neck-shoulder junction. So I'm hoping to avoid them.

I'm loading 6PPC in a rifle that is really more of a varmint than benchrest rifle. I have turned the necks of my cases (Norma) right up into the shoulder of the case. I plan to use LE Wilson neck-sizing dies with the bushing that resizes about .18" of the neck. Do I need to be concerned about the formation of donuts in this case? The brass will never be resized to closer than .11" of the shoulder. I haven't checked the Wilson full-length bushing die, but I assume that it too will size back just about .18' from the case mouth.

It shouldn't affect accuracy. Accuracy is all that matters. I doubt 68 gr bullets come anywhere near the bottom of the neck I don't like the idea of arbitrarily removing brass in the neck/shoulder area.

 

[RegionRat]

One of the bigger challenges in precision shooting, is using designs like 223 with heavy for caliber bullets that go down past the junction.

It doesn't take a very long bullet before this comes up with magazine length ammo. With the popularity of the 77 SMK, it becomes a very common problem.

 

[whatsupdoc]

With standard 223 chambers yes but with long throat chambers not a big issue
as long as you shoot long bullets. Dont understand the love for the 77SMK
if you are shooting an AR fine but I see many using them in bolt rifles.

 

[JMayo]

On my Ppc the primer pockets go before a donut causes a problem.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Doughnuts are a pain in the ass if you need to address them. Some claim to push them out with a mandrel, my doughnuts are stubborn and dont read the forum posts so they dont run away when they see a mandrel.

Like others have said if you are not pushing your bullets into them no need
to address them.

 

[RegionRat]

With standard 223 chambers yes but with long throat chambers not a big issue
as long as you shoot long bullets. Dont understand the love for the 77SMK
if you are shooting an AR fine but I see many using them in bolt rifles.

Sometimes, we snap a salute and shoot what we are issued.

 

[jimmymac]

Donuts aren't a concern for me, but I've found they typically won't form if you cut a bit into the shoulder when neck turning. YMMV

 

[jepp2]

I've read about donuts forming in cases at the neck-shoulder junction. So I'm hoping to avoid them.

I can't figure out if I am lucky, ignorant, or some combination of the two. But to me, carbon rings and donuts are still unicorns. I have yet to see either. And it isn't for lack of trying. Some years I have shot right at 12K centerfire rifle rounds. I reform brass for wildcats (always necking down), and some rifles require the base of the bullet to go past the neck shoulder junction. So clearly I am not the source of info you seek.

 

[K22]

I can't figure out if I am lucky, ignorant, or some combination of the two. But to me, carbon rings and donuts are still unicorns. I have yet to see either. And it isn't for lack of trying. Some years I have shot right at 12K centerfire rifle rounds. I reform brass for wildcats (always necking down), and some rifles require the base of the bullet to go past the neck shoulder junction. So clearly I am not the source of info you seek.

I'm in the same "boat" with you. I have reloaded and shot about a 1,000-centerfire rifle rounds a year for the past 30 years, mostly 223 Rem and 243 Win these days. I 100% full size with very old RCBS standard dies.

I just probably jinxed myself and "Donkin Donuts" are about to descend on me. 

 

[OMW57]

Personally..... I haven't met a DONUT I didn't like!
SORRY, just had to do it!

 

[markm87]

Never had a donut issue in 223, but had some stubborn ones in 300wm. At one point I was using bushing dies which seemed to squeeze brass into that donut area. But I quit with bushings in favor of collet neck sizing long ago.

 

[jepp2]

But I quit with bushings in favor of collet neck sizing long ago.

Maybe that is why. I either hone my FL sizing die necks or use LCD's with body dies. I only move the shoulder around 0.001" and minimize neck size changes. Rarely ever find any brass length growth. Don't shoot over pressure loads.

 

[Steve Blair]

Donuts are easy to avoid. When you see this sign; don't stop, keep driving.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Easy with ^^^^^^^ that sign.
With this one not so much.