How many reloads, Lapua 260

[jimbo88mm]

I've got around 10 reloads per case and I'm having to start culling cases (~20%) due to incipient case head separation. Attached is a not so good photo of a case I ripped apart to show what I was feeling with my paper clip tool.

Most of the loads on this brass were with what I consider a moderate 260 load (140gr hornady bthp, 41.5gr of IMR4451 @ 2800 fps). Recently I settled on a warmer load but only have a couple loads of this newer load (140gr hornady eld-m, 42.8gr of IMR4451@2930 fps). These velocities are from a 30 inch barrel.

I'm curious to see how everyone else is doing.

PS. I'm full length resizing every reload with a standard rcbs die. Do you think neck sizing would help?

 

[JohnKielly]

If your chamber is more than .002" longer than the dimensions produced by your full length sizing die, then sizing each time you reload will generate the very situation that leads to case head separation, that is, your cases stretch to fill the chamber each firing & you bat them back each time you size.

Instead of just neck sizing, you could try to back off your FLS die until the bolt j-u-s-t closes without effort when you load, That way, you've reduced the opportunity for the case to stretch.

 

[ballison]

I'm on firing #20 with my 260/Lapua load. I'm using a custom Whidden FL die and only bumping the shoulder 1-2 thou, and I anneal every other firing. Some of the primer pockets are starting to get a little loose, but not to the point where I will trash the brass. I'm running the 130's at 2950, so it's not a light load by any means.

FWIW the only time I've had a case head separation is when I bumped the shoulder way too much (.010"), and it was on a magnum caliber. I agree with JK, set up your die so you're only bumping your shoulder a few thou.

 

[rebeltex]

I'm on the 16th loading and have not had to cull a case yet.
140gr Hornady Amax, 42.2 gr H4350, CCI Br2 primers
I neck size with Redding Bushing dies but have to bump the shoulders about every 4th or 5th firing when the bolt gets a little tight.

 

[4xforfun]

A friend of mine shoots Lapua brass in a 243. He had, as of a couple of months ago, 2800 rounds through the tube. Started with 50 pieces of brass.......down to around 40 now.

Do the math on that one!!!!

 

[expiper]

Disclaimer--not a .260,,but almost the same thing,,,I have a .243 ,Rem 700 "Tupperware" with std bbl (not varmint profile) that I have shot in several "factory" class event ,,and a lot here at home doing load work and "fun" events with friends,,,,I have used the same Lapua brass in this gun since it was new,,,I have ~50 reloads on the brass and have lost 5 ctgs ,,one I droped on the ground and stepped on it !!! grrrr... and the others have lost primer pokets because I over pressured them doing load work ups,,,and I do not anneal,,,,,
OP,,,if you are having head seperations ,,it is your reloading methods that need looked at ,,,your dies are either adjusted wrong or do not "fit" your fired brass and chamber combo properly,,,,Roger

 

[BoydAllen]

Anytime that I read of someone getting incipient separations I know that he does not yet know how to properly set his FL dies. If you want to learn how to do that, there are any number of us who post here who can help you.

 

[Sniper338]

I dont know how many loads im up to without going to look.. BUT ill get more than 10 for sure. 20-25 and ill be happy. I anneal every reload..

 

[savagedasher]

I dont know how many loads im up to without going to look.. BUT ill get more than 10 for sure. 20-25 and ill be happy. I anneal every reload..

That verys the least amount you work the brass the longer they last . Larry

 

[Sniper338]

That verys the least amount you work the brass the longer they last . Larry

I neck size only...

 

[savagedasher]

I neck size only...

That helps mine have made over25 . I only size halfway on the necks . Had to go to a smaller neck size because of the wear of reloading . Larry

 

[M-61]

I neck size....and just that...enough to secure the bullet roughly depending on cartridge but I am not sizing the whole neck, just varies in resizing length.
As far as 'bumping' the shoulder back....I don't UNLESS there is a reason which would be the bolt being too hard to close. If the bolt closes as normal, I am not going to work the brass one bit more than I need. If the bolt closes why one would 'bump' (move) the shoulder back is beyond me unless you want to shorten the life of your brass.

 

[AckleymanII]

case head separations are not unusual.

Problem: shoulder is being pushed back too far when the web is being sized to where the bolt will close easily. This is typical.

The fix is to have a die that sizes only the web, then another die to push back the shoulder correctly. If you had a shoulder only bump die, this would eliminate much of the full length sizing. With this technique, you can get a 100 + firings on cases with proper annealing.

 

[Eric Leonard]

all my loads shoot better with the shoulders bumped just enough to close the bolt,,I use to neck size only but after a couple cycles some cases get harder to chamber than others and I get some crazy vertical,,

the only case head seperation I ever had was with 7.62 LC brass that was supposed to be once fired and processed and advertised as ready to load,,out of 1,000 cases 2 seperated on the first firing and the other 998 are still going strong after 4 cycles using 175 SMK `s and 44.8 Varget in a 700 PSS,,

I get better accuracy,,ES/SD and seemingly endless case life using Redding FL-S dies with a minimum shoulder bump and .002-.004 neck tension

 

[jimbo88mm]

Thanks for the replies everyone. The good news is that it sounds like I'm doing something wrong which means it's correctable. A forum member has reached out to help me setup my FL die. Hopefully i get more reloads out of my next batch of brass

 

[expiper]

Jimbo,,,some dies can NOT be adjusted correctly,,,especially if they are made wrong or with a generic reamer,,,I would get a Redding type "S" full length die and learn how to use it,,,,some factory (and custom) dies are different (your chamber may be wierd also) that you are trying to make 30-06 fit in a 30-30,,wink,,,,Roger

 

[Gr8Horses2003]

So...BoydAllen...can you help us understand how to properly set our FL size dies? I have a semi-auto .260 imp. 30...RCW's Ackley for semi-autos ;>). He recommends Redding S-type bushing dies, but I want to size the entire neck, so I have a set of Whidden dies now. Maybe you can tell me how to re-size my Lapua brass properly, if you would be so kind. Thanks in advance.

 

[KevinThomas]

Jimbo,
We normally expect to see at least ten reloads, assuming that the loads are held to within the SAAMI or CIP pressure limits for that casrtridge, and that the case isn't being overworked when it's processed. Easy enough to say, but there are a lot of caveats involved as well. Staying within recognized pressure limits pretty well speaks for itself, so no need to dwell on that. Excessive working of the brass, however, begs some explanation. What this almost always comes down to is the shoulders being pushed too far back, resulting in if not true "excessive headspace", at least more than is desirable, even if it is "within specs." Remember, there's a nominal .010" between minimum and maximum chamber HS dimensions, meaning that with a minimum cartridge being fed into a maximum chamber, you can still have a case stretching a full .010" each and every firing. Everything is within spec, and yet those cases are going to die rather quickly due to head separations. This is the risk of following the die makers instructions and simply running the die down to contact with the shell holder and allowing the press to cam over. Use gages! There's several on the market, all of them work, some are easier to use than others. But you seriously need to use them when setting up a sizing die. This is the only way to know exactly how much you're setting the shoulders back. Ideally, this needs to be right about .001" for bolt guns. Cases sized this way will chamber flawlessly and yet last through a good many firings.

Avoid Neck Sizing (my controversial post for the day) as it creates as many problems (more, actually) as it solves, and they're generally worse than those you're trying to cure. Eventually, the cases will have to be F/L sized anyway, and the cases will get worked as much as if they'd been properly F/L sized every firing. The biggest issue with N/S cases is that eventually, they won't chamber. Murphy ensures that these will chamber, fire and extract perfectly, all season long, lulling you into a false sense of security before hosing you big time at the worst possible time and place. Avoid it, and don't give it a chance to do so. As my mentor the late Jim Hull used to say, "a cartridge should fit a chamber like a rat turd in a violin case." As usual, Jim was right.

Following these basic guidelines, ten firings is expected, and more is perfectly normal.

 

[BoydAllen]

I don't shoot or load for semiautomatic rifles but I stayed in a Holiday Inn once. (If you didn't see the commercial that made no sense at all.) That being said, my understanding is that for that application cases need looser fits
(than bolt rifles) in chamber, both in diameter and also from shoulder to head. The diameter part is a function of the die body dimensions being appropriate to those of the chamber for this application, and the shoulder to head chamber clearance is a matter of die adjustment.

The first thing that you will need is a way to measure cases from head to shoulder, or more properly datum line. (It should be understood that when making this measurement on a fired case, that the primer should be removed or reseated well below flush, (mashed back down into the pocket). From that point it is a matter of setting the die so that the difference between the fired case and the sized is correct for your application. I would guess that .003-004 under fired would be in the range. If I were working to the minimum I would gauge every case to make sure that they all had been properly bumped, given that differences in factory annealing are likely to produce a range of result from a given die setting. Also, as cases are fired and sized a number of times they will work harden, increasing spring back, gradually reducing the amount of shoulder "bump" (set back) produced by a given die setting. Translation, you can expect to have to slightly readjust your FL die from time to time. Getting back to body diameter clearance, particularly for semiautomatics, this needs to be confirmed by measuring before and after sizing at the shoulder and about .3 up from the head, a little less on smaller cases. There are several tools that can be used to make the shoulder to head measurement, one that I have fills the bill quite will for me. It used to be made by Stoney Point, and is now offered by Hornady. They call it a '"headspace gauge" which is incorrect. It is a comparitor used to measure from case shoulders to heads.

If you want to size all of the neck, there are a couple of ways to achieve this. One would be to use a one piece die, better if the neck ID is customized to prevent over working of the neck, or if you want to go the custom route, you can order a FL die that uses bushings that incorporate both neck and shoulder, such as Neil Jones offers. I would be sure to let him know about your application is when ordering the die so that he will make the body IDs appropriate to a semiautomic. Warner Tool Co. also offers a die with this type of bushing.

 

[Gr8Horses2003]

Thank you Kevin Thomas and Boyd Allen!