How do you tell someone
- Thread starter farmerjohn
- Start date
D Coots
Silver $$ Contributor
Damn....I'm older than you. Never skydived, just sold all the bikes a couple years ago, and still do 3 of the 5 on the list. Plus reloading.
Later
Dave
fx77
Gold $$ Contributor
Ccrider
Gold $$ Contributor
Unfortunately, you can be sued for anything and I assure you, frivolous lawsuits are filed every day.
Can you be found liable and ordered to pay money? Yes. Much depends on your level of involvement and the particular state you are in. I can not see any situation where you could be found liable for just telling someone how to do something but you never know.
Civil liability is generally based on breach of some duty, owed or assumed, and the degree to which you are at fault.
If you assume a duty to teach him to reload, and participate in the process of making defective ammo with him, and that ammo that the two of you make during the teaching process is fired and harms him and some innocent bystander, you can be held liable for the bystander, and possibly for your student.
Some states apply a comparative fault/negligence standard where a jury can apportion liability. If a jury found that you were the teacher and 90 percent responsible and your student was 10 percent responsible in causing his $500,000.00 injury, then you will be ordered to pay your student 90 percent of his total damages- $450,000.00.
Other states say that if you are in any way responsible for causing your injury, you are totally barred from recovering.
As it relates to innocent bystanders, you and your student will likely be found joint and severally liable for all injuries caused. The bystander can sue you alone and you would be required to pay all the damages. You could add your friend and claim that he is partially responsible. You both would be found responsible for 100 percent of the damages although the bystander can only recover once (100 percent).
Last, there are also some laws that make it illegal (a crime) to make ammo for others. You could be found liable civilly for violating this criminal law.
Almost a lose lose proposition teaching someone to reload.
I’m a shotgun instructor and in my experience 60-70 year old men can be mighty hard to teach. Not all, but a many. Be direct. Tell him the truth, inform him that there could be consequences if he doesn’t do things correctly. Both physical and legal. Reloading is no place for guess work or haphazardness. Recipes and rules are there for a reason. I’ve seen folks get away with some mighty shoddy loading practices. Most of them i try to warn. They can’t understand why a locking lug broke, an extractor broke or why they can’t get the bolt open. Some don‘t have scales, calipers, or case trimming equipment. Worse yet is that some of these folks load rounds for others.
Don’t go down with the ship. He’s not just putting himself in jeopardy.
Don’t go down with the ship. He’s not just putting himself in jeopardy.
D-4297
Gold $$ Contributor
That's okay . Everyone is entitled to their own ignorant opinion . After over two thousand jumps , and twenty-four Hours Free-fall time , I thoroughly enjoyed every second of it . Including the seven Military H.A.L.O. Jumps ......You're welcome !
The saying here is "birdshit and the Parachute Regiment". A few static line jumps from a CH-4 Caribou at work convinced me that it was never going to be a recreational activity for me. You have my utmost respect.
Blowing up one was not a learning experience. He is lucky he wasn't blinded. You don't want to be legally responsible for any injuries he may cause. Have nothing to do with this persons reloading or shooting. You can be sued if he says he was following your instructions or if you helped him reload. He could lie and say he was following your instructions as you taught him. A lawyer would probably win that ione.
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I met a guy at the range that said he had a 220 Russian necked up to 6mm. He insisted that the cartridge was still called a 220 Russian because of the head stamp. Also saw a guy at the range that said he was working up loads, he was shooting 5" groups at 100 yrds. He even hung targets at 200 yrds.
Let Darwin sort it out.
Edit to add, in learning many of the things I do, I had teachers who, when their patience wore out, were loud, lewd, often profane, and sometimes physical. It was effective.
One of the more gentle rebukes went like this:
Skeeter: "Jim, how many siblings do you have?"
Me: "Nine that I know of..."
Skeeter : "How many are still alive?"
Me : "All of 'em"
Skeeter : "You're about to shorten that list..."
Edit to add, in learning many of the things I do, I had teachers who, when their patience wore out, were loud, lewd, often profane, and sometimes physical. It was effective.
One of the more gentle rebukes went like this:
Skeeter: "Jim, how many siblings do you have?"
Me: "Nine that I know of..."
Skeeter : "How many are still alive?"
Me : "All of 'em"
Skeeter : "You're about to shorten that list..."
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I’ve seen one rifle blown into six different pieces. Another basically welded the bolt shut. Had a shotgun come in banana peeled like something in a cartoon. My grandfather actually had a 4” long piece blow off the side of a Fox Sterlingworth that nearly took his finger off. Factory loads in that one. I suspect a stuck wad.
Regardless, it isn’t worth the risk. The issue is that it may not only be him that gets hurt. That’s the bad part. I have to address safety concerns every day as an instructor. I’m not an ass about it. It’s not personal. There are simply rules that have to be followed. If they aren’t, the lesson doesn‘t continue.
I had a guy about a month ago that was up in age and obviously had early onset of dementia. He would forget that he loaded his gun. Forget how many times he had shot. I insisted that I manage his ammo, only gave him one shell at a time, watched him load, and was in arms reach in case I had to seize the gun. Plus his wife was on board and helped. We managed to have a really good day.
My simple saying is that nothing trumps safety. It is first and foremost. Friend or no friend, either we are safe, or we don’t continue. You can’t call a bullet or pellets back and 1 brief second can change lives forever.
Regardless, it isn’t worth the risk. The issue is that it may not only be him that gets hurt. That’s the bad part. I have to address safety concerns every day as an instructor. I’m not an ass about it. It’s not personal. There are simply rules that have to be followed. If they aren’t, the lesson doesn‘t continue.
I had a guy about a month ago that was up in age and obviously had early onset of dementia. He would forget that he loaded his gun. Forget how many times he had shot. I insisted that I manage his ammo, only gave him one shell at a time, watched him load, and was in arms reach in case I had to seize the gun. Plus his wife was on board and helped. We managed to have a really good day.
My simple saying is that nothing trumps safety. It is first and foremost. Friend or no friend, either we are safe, or we don’t continue. You can’t call a bullet or pellets back and 1 brief second can change lives forever.
Yep, they live among us. And they vote. Scary any way you look at it.
Exponentially I’m afraid !!!
divingin
Gold $$ Contributor
Is there something that your friend is good at that you are relatively new to?
Try sharing the experience of that but do stupid stuff and try your best to screw it up. If he corrects you, you then you may cut a path forward to correct him in reloading.
There was a guy at our range who blew his magazine out of his M1A one weekend, blew primers out and locked up the action the following weekend, and blew his rifle up the 3rd (no injuries.) Each time he was warned that he was operating way over-pressure, and something bad was going to happen, but he insisted he was loading "to the book recipe".
Unfortunately, there are times where you should probably just walk away. (Not saying this is one of them, though.)
Try sharing the experience of that but do stupid stuff and try your best to screw it up. If he corrects you, you then you may cut a path forward to correct him in reloading.
There was a guy at our range who blew his magazine out of his M1A one weekend, blew primers out and locked up the action the following weekend, and blew his rifle up the 3rd (no injuries.) Each time he was warned that he was operating way over-pressure, and something bad was going to happen, but he insisted he was loading "to the book recipe".
Unfortunately, there are times where you should probably just walk away. (Not saying this is one of them, though.)
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