How did I ruin my sizing die? (Scored inside)

[Kimber.204]

I've been shooting a 6mm Comp Match for several years. I've loaded approximately 3000 rounds in that amount of time.
This past spring when I was loading up some practice rounds I noticed that my sized brass was coming out of the die scratched. The scratches are parallel to the axis of the case, and at several points around the circumference of the case. It had been a while since I cleaned the dies so I tore them down and took a look. There where huge brass streaks in the die. I cleaned the die, which ended up being a hassle. I had to use wipe out to get rid of all the brass in the dies. Then I hit them with break cleaner followed by One Shot cleaner/lube. I inspected the dies again. Brass streaks are gone, but I can see pits/burrs in the die body. Using a cotton swab you can easily feel these areas. I'm going to call Redding this week and see if they can hone that out and return the die.

My reloading procedure for this brass (after being fired) has been:

1. Tumble ( I think the latest bucket of media is walnut)
2. Anneal
3. Lube (Dillon or Frankford Arsenal lanolin type)
4. Size
5. Prime
6. Charge
7. Seat

What happened that I scored this die?
Was the brass not clean enough? Lube issue? Die not cleaned often enough.

I want to avoid this mistake in the future.
Thanks,
Ross

 

[Bill K]

I am just guessing, but somehow you probably had some debris on your hands and it got into the case lube as you put some on the brass and sized them.
Good idea to clean the dies however, maybe more often.

 

[RegionRat]

Have you taken a look inside your die with a borescope?

I'm suggesting you don't give up on the die unless you know it is truly scored.

Sometimes, a stubborn deposit can gall the cases, but it is possible to scrub that deposit and recover.

If it is truly scored, as in the steel is galled up and raised, it would take some honing to recover it and it may be easier to just punt.

In terms of how to prevent this, you sound like you already know the answer. You need to protect your dies from abrasive deposits and grit. Keeping the work pieces lubed will also prevent galling and transfer of brass to the die.

If you want to try and remove a stubborn deposit, try using something like kerosene and a Scotchbrite pad on a wooden dowel rod to scrub the die. Kano Kroil or kerosene will act to get under the dirt in a similar fashion to a detergent.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If its honed out itll get bigger. Is it extremely shiny inside? Some dies are polished too much and they drag brass off the case. Are the scratches enough to cause an issue? If its just scratching the case id just keep using it and replace it someday if you decide to keep on shooting that cartridge.

 

[bozo699]

I think you have Been given some good advice,... I would start with a bore scope so you can see for sure what your dealing with. Dusty is correct if they hone it,.. it won’t size your brass correctly if they were mine I would use 0000 steel wool or some scotch bright and try to clean them up . I usually use steel wool with a cleaning brush chucked in a drill. If it don’t and I think it will toss them and learn from your mistakes. I’m guessing carbon or foreign debris caused your problem, it’s happened to me before. Good luck
Wayne

 

[JohnKielly]

A good while back now, I ended up with grime embedded in a sizing fie, but fortunately, I was able to clean it out.

Since then I have always deprimed my cases on the cheapest Lee press I have set up with a universal depriming die in it and a spent primer collecter bottle under. That way the crud associated with combustion ends there & not in my quality sizing dies.

 

[PRR1957]

I would only use use 0000 steel wool spun with a soft wood dowel like white pine with kerosene or WD-40, which is mostly kerosene to polish the dies. Never use Scotch Bright. It’s to abrasive and can imbed their abrasive into the steel of the dies , which are made from mild steel which can be scratched quite easily.

As for case sizing lube, I’ve used exclusively RCBS Case Lube 2 for decades with out a problem with RCBS, Redding, Forsters, Hornady, and Lee dies. One year I sized 10,000 LC 223 cases with RCBS Small Base dies without and problem. Not one scratched/scored case. Just have to re lube the case lube pad after every 100 cases. Nice thing about RCBS Case Lube 2 is it’s water/dish soap soluble. So when the case lube pad gets dirty, I’ll remove the lube pad, wash it clean, let it dry, and it’s good to go again. I’ve been using this same RCBS Case Lube Pad for over two decades now. That foam just doesn’t ware out with normal usage.

 

[B Nettesheim]

The finish on your die is too polished, hone it with emery like you would do to a cylinder in an engine and your brass streaks will no longer happen

 

[AlNyhus]

I've had success using a cotton chamber mop on a drill.

Load the chamber mop with a mix of JB paste and a tiny bit of Permatex valve grinding compound.

Good shootin'. -Al

 

[Kimber.204]

The finish on your die is too polished, hone it with emery like you would do to a cylinder in an engine and your brass streaks will no longer happen

I have actually wondered about this. It was pretty shiny, and some time ago (after having these brass issues) I tried to polish out the visible defects with steel wool and Kroil. The defects/scratches in the die are still there, but now the rest of the surface is extremely shiny. I know from building custom machinery that sometimes you can have a surface too smooth....there needs to be somewhere for the lubricant to go.

I wonder if I can find a small flapper wheel to fit a .243/6mm Comp Match die. That would be super easy (I'd have to be careful not to do too much).

If its honed out itll get bigger. Is it extremely shiny inside? Some dies are polished too much and they drag brass off the case. Are the scratches enough to cause an issue? If its just scratching the case id just keep using it and replace it someday if you decide to keep on shooting that cartridge.

The state of the cases doesn't bother me. They are Winchester brass with several firings and they get tossed in the dirt/gravel/grass during high power matches. The problem is that it scratches each piece of brass now and the brass builds up in the die fairly quickly.....so I need to do something - whether repair or replace.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I have actually wondered about this. It was pretty shiny, and some time ago (after having these brass issues) I tried to polish out the visible defects with steel wool and Kroil. The defects/scratches in the die are still there, but now the rest of the surface is extremely shiny. I know from building custom machinery that sometimes you can have a surface too smooth....there needs to be somewhere for the lubricant to go.

I wonder if I can find a small flapper wheel to fit a .243/6mm Comp Match die. That would be super easy (I'd have to be careful not to do too much).



The state of the cases doesn't bother me. They are Winchester brass with several firings and they get tossed in the dirt/gravel/grass during high power matches. The problem is that it scratches each piece of brass now and the brass builds up in the die fairly quickly.....so I need to do something - whether repair or replace.

Send it to me and ill put the correct finish in it and get it right back to you. Aint saying ill polish the dents out but the interior finish wont be your problem anymore

 

[Webster]

I've been shooting a 6mm Comp Match for several years. I've loaded approximately 3000 rounds in that amount of time.
This past spring when I was loading up some practice rounds I noticed that my sized brass was coming out of the die scratched. The scratches are parallel to the axis of the case, and at several points around the circumference of the case. It had been a while since I cleaned the dies so I tore them down and took a look. There where huge brass streaks in the die. I cleaned the die, which ended up being a hassle. I had to use wipe out to get rid of all the brass in the dies. Then I hit them with break cleaner followed by One Shot cleaner/lube. I inspected the dies again. Brass streaks are gone, but I can see pits/burrs in the die body. Using a cotton swab you can easily feel these areas. I'm going to call Redding this week and see if they can hone that out and return the die.

My reloading procedure for this brass (after being fired) has been:

1. Tumble ( I think the latest bucket of media is walnut)
2. Anneal
3. Lube (Dillon or Frankford Arsenal lanolin type)
4. Size
5. Prime
6. Charge
7. Seat

What happened that I scored this die?
Was the brass not clean enough? Lube issue? Die not cleaned often enough.

I want to avoid this mistake in the future.
Thanks,
Ross

This problem has been covered before. You didn't chamfer the case necks properly. Little nibbs of brass get torn from the edge of the case neck and dragged down into the die.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Below is an example of brass sticking to the inside of a neck bushing that was posted here. The photo is after the bushing was polished meaning the photo shows the remaining sticking brass.

For starters use a strong bore solvent that when sniffed curls your nose hairs and makes you cry to remove the brass. Then polish the die with a snug fitting shotgun cleaning mop with J&B Bore paste and Kroil. If you are lazy you can disassemble the die and place the die body in a vibratory tumbler with treated walnut media. Then let the die tumble overnight and it will come out looking better than new.

Below if the case mouth is not deburred properly, particles of brass can break off and become embedded in the die. This can also happen if the neck-shoulder junction of the die is not polished properly at the factory. This causes this area to pick up brass and keep picking up even more brass as the die is used.

If the scratches are on the case body it can be from brass, dirt or grit sticking to the die. And cleaning and polishing the die should remove the problem.

And in over 48 years of reloading, I have never scratched and ruined the die. And it was always something sticking to the inside of the die causing the problem.

 

[bobm]

I used my Teslong pistol bore scope to view the inside of a Redding .308 FL die I bought used. It does leave scratches on my brass. Not from smeared on galled brass, but from rust. My guess is the previous owner used lanolin based case lube which has some water in the formula. They were advertised as "rust free" condition. They were rust free on the exterior.

I will use a split wood dowel and polishing paper with oil to remove the raised portion of this rust. That will fix this little problem.

 

[Kimber.204]

And in over 48 years of reloading, I have never scratched and ruined the die. And it was always something sticking to the inside of the die causing the problem.

I'll give this (another) try... Thanks

 

[judgecrater]

I had a similar problem with a Lee 44mag die scratching my brass when first used. Contacted Lee and they said I had failed to clean the die when new and it had left over particles from their manufacturing process. Advised me to clean all new dies. They replace the die for me. I know yours was not new but it must have gotten some abrasive particles in it. That is all it takes.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Dies are case hardened, it takes something harder than the case hardening to scratch it.

Build up is another thing. I can’t say that I have ever experienced buildup in a die to where Something actually adhered to the wall of the die..

I use nothing but Imperial Sizing Wax.

 

[jepp2]

I'll give this (another) try... Thanks

The surface hardening of FL sizing dies is really hard. I hone die necks to the diameter I need them to be. Using clover lapping compound (normally 240 grit) it takes speed and a long time to increase the diameter 0.0005". When I finish I polish the interior of the die with Flitz then Mothers polish. I'll show what my die interiors look like after polishing. I can understand them being too polished, but I would estimate polishing reduces the effort to size cases by at least 50% with the Bootleg case lube I use.

That said, I have frequently seen build up on the die walls that caused marks on the brass. But I have never scored the die wall. I do only use cleaned brass in my dies, but just pretty hard to imagine scoring that hardened finish. And the Flitz/Mothers has always removed any brass build up from the walls quickly.

 

[Kimber.204]

I looked at it with my cheap Teslong borescope....pictures didn't come out very good, so I won't bother posting them, but....it's clearly brass galled to the wall of the die.

Last night I tried:

1. Sweets - no visible effect.
2. Brass gun smith pick - no visible effect.
3. GunSlick foaming bore cleaner (only foam that I could find locally) - no visible effect

I'm going to pick up a small flap wheel and emery cloth today and try that.

I'm really surprised that the Sweet's didn't touch it. I usually use Bore Tech Eliminator, but I didn't try that yet.

 

[jelenko]

Sweets works on the copper in the brass. I would imagine that Sweets would take a lot longer on brass than on copper. Also, once the 'surface' copper is removed, it might be a lot harder for Sweets to get to the rest.