I've seen what I thought was the same but dismissed it without paying it much attention is why I asked. May be something there but not sure how.
How consistent are your full length resizing numbers?
- Thread starter Toemader
- Start date
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
What happened yesterday??!!Easy to prove. Not sure when I'll shoot again after yesterday.....
I'll have to check it out.Easy to prove. Not sure when I'll shoot again after yesterday.....
D Coots
Silver $$ Contributor
Well, Dean and I have been testing bullets when a nice day comes by. Yesterday was no exception to stuff not working. . Even proven bullets aren't working. Going to lay off a while. We almost called the suicide hot line....
How are you adjusting your dies, assuming you're referring to shoulder bump? I found the only way for a consistent shoulder bump is using competition shell holders or Neil Jones micrometer sizing dies. Neil has the best dies on the market!
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
We all have those Days. You start doubting every proven concept you have ever used, start changing things, think about taking up bowling, .……
Years ago, in an interview with Don Gartlits when he was on a loosing street, he said……“I know I can go fast, I just have to remember how I did it.”
If it’s any consolation, I had a great day at the range today.
Small Rebated Boat Tail On 68 Grain 6mm……Tested Today
I recently acquired a set of 6mm Carbide Bullet Dies that were part of Ronnie Cheek’s inventory. They came with several point up die punches, all had a slight flaking at the sharp edge at the mouth of the punch. This is an on going problem with making Boat Tail Bullets, that razor sharp edge...
forum.accurateshooter.com
One Eye Pete
Gold $$ Contributor
It’s not the amount you bump back, it’s more the tolerance (keeping it consistent). I like to bump back till I have an easy bolt close (usually .002). To me what counts most is accurate seating depth and not stacking tolerances. If you normally bump back .002 and are off by +.001 and then are off by off by -.002 in seating depth, now you can be off by .003 in actual seating depth. This may cause an accuracy problem. This is why I try and stay as consistent as possible in both case sizing and bullet seating depth. To me what causes the most error in shoulder bump is
1. annealing brass and adequate dwell time in press to reduce brass spring back error.
2. minimum lube on case shoulder. I polish all my sizing dies and use little or no lube on the case shoulder. I also use a very thin lube (Ballistol) and don't let it build up to where it could give me more bump.
3. I use a good stiff press (Rockchucker)
4. I check each case for bump consistency in a PMA quick case checker (modified to use a digital indicator). I normally get +/- 0.0005.
After seating bullets I do a quick check with an Accuracy One seating depth comparator which measures shoulder to ojive. I normally get +/- .0005. If I can stay within these tolerances, even if the tolerances stack I should be within .001 on actual seating depth.
Now I’m not completely nuts I’m strictly a club level F-Open shooter and I only do all these measurements on match loads. It must do something cause a half blind old dummy like me has been fairly successful at club matches (when I don’t make stupid mistakes) and has been able to earn a long range high master rating. Anyone who would worry about these tolerances on hunting or hitting a large steel target is truly nuts.
1. annealing brass and adequate dwell time in press to reduce brass spring back error.
2. minimum lube on case shoulder. I polish all my sizing dies and use little or no lube on the case shoulder. I also use a very thin lube (Ballistol) and don't let it build up to where it could give me more bump.
3. I use a good stiff press (Rockchucker)
4. I check each case for bump consistency in a PMA quick case checker (modified to use a digital indicator). I normally get +/- 0.0005.
After seating bullets I do a quick check with an Accuracy One seating depth comparator which measures shoulder to ojive. I normally get +/- .0005. If I can stay within these tolerances, even if the tolerances stack I should be within .001 on actual seating depth.
Now I’m not completely nuts I’m strictly a club level F-Open shooter and I only do all these measurements on match loads. It must do something cause a half blind old dummy like me has been fairly successful at club matches (when I don’t make stupid mistakes) and has been able to earn a long range high master rating. Anyone who would worry about these tolerances on hunting or hitting a large steel target is truly nuts.
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
I agree. And re-measuring the brass a day after sizing will drive one nuts, seeing that some springs back more than others.
Just to add in: don’t just blindly bump the shoulder back based on measuring a fired case. Check the fit in the rifle and bump back slowly until the brass chambers without difficulty in your rifle. This way you are guaranteed to have the just right fit for your gun. Check every piece in the rifle if you’re in a shooting discipline like LR benchrest where a hitch in the bolt will wreck your rhythm and mess up your resulting group or score.
6BRA
Gold $$ Contributor
I don't see this with annealing. No springback.
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
ZERO? That is pretty amazing.
Clancy
Silver $$ Contributor
Quite the pissing match in this thread, but some really good advice in it as well.
.002 variance in sizing is quite a bit. It could be that your caliper is drifting or it could be in the technique. Just be sure that you’re using approximately the same amount of lube and in the same places on the case. Stop and clean the die once in a while, or after any long session.
I lube every case by hand whether there’s 15 of them or 250 of them. I keep all my brass on the same number of firings and use consistent form when sizing, to a reasonable extent.
While someone suggested it was a steaming pile of shit, it’s really not that hard to hold .0005 up or down, using the technique above.
Reasonably clean cases, good dies, consistent/quality lube and a reasonably consistent stroke on the press aren’t options. They’re prerequisites.
What’s really awesome is when you have the same competent person cut every chamber and get to use the same die for years without touching it. I have sized 22,6 and 6.5x47 with .002 bump and not adjusted the sizing die’s position, only the bushing size. Sure, there’s a little variance in there but between the 3 of them 2 were spot on .002 and the other .0025- not worth touching the lock ring if you ask me.
.002 variance in sizing is quite a bit. It could be that your caliper is drifting or it could be in the technique. Just be sure that you’re using approximately the same amount of lube and in the same places on the case. Stop and clean the die once in a while, or after any long session.
I lube every case by hand whether there’s 15 of them or 250 of them. I keep all my brass on the same number of firings and use consistent form when sizing, to a reasonable extent.
While someone suggested it was a steaming pile of shit, it’s really not that hard to hold .0005 up or down, using the technique above.
Reasonably clean cases, good dies, consistent/quality lube and a reasonably consistent stroke on the press aren’t options. They’re prerequisites.
What’s really awesome is when you have the same competent person cut every chamber and get to use the same die for years without touching it. I have sized 22,6 and 6.5x47 with .002 bump and not adjusted the sizing die’s position, only the bushing size. Sure, there’s a little variance in there but between the 3 of them 2 were spot on .002 and the other .0025- not worth touching the lock ring if you ask me.
I appreciate all the input. But I do have some new info to share. I decided to use 100 new pieces of new lapua brass and loaded my rounds exactly as I had all of the previous rounds, same primer, same powder, same projectile etc. All of this new brass came out 1.4670-1.4680 after firing, pretty consistent with most rounds being 1.4675. What I did find out is that I am over pressure, I had way too many signs of this, difficult ejections, ejector marks, and a few popped primers. So I plan to drop my powder down and find another node.
Anyhow, here is the problem, I was not getting consistent results after resizing this now once fired brass (that I had just annealed), so finally I decided the aluminum locking ring on my Forester die looked pretty rough, and might not be making flush contact on the press, so I replaced it with a Hornady ring. All of a sudden I was getting 1.4655 consistently on the once fired brass, great right? Not so fast. Now I tried to resize the older 4-5 time fired brass (that was also just annealed), and after running it through the die, some was still measuring 1.4680. Now how does one piece go from 1.4675 to 1.4655, but a different piece goes from 1.4680-1.4680 (no change)? I'm lubing all cases very consistently, I run the press exactly the same every time. I don't get it. I realize that this older brass has likely been over stressed as it was loaded with the same load as the new brass that was giving me pressure signs.
Anyhow, here is the problem, I was not getting consistent results after resizing this now once fired brass (that I had just annealed), so finally I decided the aluminum locking ring on my Forester die looked pretty rough, and might not be making flush contact on the press, so I replaced it with a Hornady ring. All of a sudden I was getting 1.4655 consistently on the once fired brass, great right? Not so fast. Now I tried to resize the older 4-5 time fired brass (that was also just annealed), and after running it through the die, some was still measuring 1.4680. Now how does one piece go from 1.4675 to 1.4655, but a different piece goes from 1.4680-1.4680 (no change)? I'm lubing all cases very consistently, I run the press exactly the same every time. I don't get it. I realize that this older brass has likely been over stressed as it was loaded with the same load as the new brass that was giving me pressure signs.
We have a pretty durn nice English wheel in our shop..... use it maybe once a month? on different projects. One thing I've learned is how even within one sheet of metal....
It takes on a different "character" to the effects of wheeling. A slightly round about way of saying metrology can/may outpace the metal's ability to react. Good luck with your project.
ETA; hell for stout USA EW... not some pos harbor freight.
It takes on a different "character" to the effects of wheeling. A slightly round about way of saying metrology can/may outpace the metal's ability to react. Good luck with your project.
ETA; hell for stout USA EW... not some pos harbor freight.
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