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How Clean Is Too Clean?

Fotheringill

After being horrified after using my Teslong for the first time, I assiduously cleaned my barrel with a different copper and/or carbon cleaner with different brands each night. The barrel was as clean as I can do it. I shot yesterday. I took two foulers (as always) and then proceeded to shoot three shot groups at 100 yards. The first four targets looked like a 20 gauge spread. Then, it settled down into 1/3 MOA on a 10 mph swirling wind. I was using CFE 223. Sam load, depth, brass, bullet etc.

Should I let some copper build up on the lands? Carbon? Keep cleaning assiduously?
 
My experience mimics yours, as my barrels that are too clean can take a bit to settle back in & behave. In your case, it reads that it took 14 rounds to put you back to where 2 would normally get you. It seems that your initial cleaning regime was working well for what your barrel wanted.
 
The problem I see with affordable bore scopes is people over-cleaning and potentially damaging a decent barrel trying to get it spotless. If it's spotless but doesn't shoot it has no worth. Another aspect is accelerated wear due to additional fouling shots required to restore accuracy. There needs to be a happy medium, use the scope to find it.

I have a Lyman and just received a Teslong wifi, my primary objectives for the scopes was determining general condition, throat wear, chamber damage, copper fouling, and carbon build up. Inspecting internals of actions/lugs, inside cartridges, etc. can be a bonus.

They are great tools but..... :eek:
 
All ''clean'' barrels need a little fouling before they settle down..yours showed it..as posted above, you have too find what your barrel likes..I had one barrel that didn't settle until I put 20 rds. thru it, then it was a tack driver..still cleaned too bare bones and repeated..but that's just me.
 
It's all what works for you. People ask why I still use Hoppe's # 9 instead of one of the ultra-marketed solvents guaranteed to instantly remove all copper from anything within a few feet of where you opened the bottle. I respond, well, I paid good money to get that copper in there...
 
I will put this out here, many people may disagree: There are more barrels ruined by over-cleaning than by cleaning too little. Look at it this way, thanks to the bore scope you cleaned your barrel extra well. Then it took you 12 rounds more than usual to get it back to shooting the way it should, that is 12 less rounds of barrel life. Do you shoot competitively? How many foulers are you allowed before you have to shoot for record? Sounds like you would need at least 14 before you shot for record, and you still would not have dialed in at that time.

If you get a barrel squeaky clean then it takes more foulers to get it shooting again. Try this, instead of using the bore scope to see how clean you can get the barrel, check the barrel when it is shooting well to see how much fouling it takes to shoot well. Next time, don't clean past that point.
 
Whoa
I just heard the other day that only squeaky clean barrels shoot.
 
I kind of figured the answers would be along these lines, but asked anyway. I will look tonight at what is now in the barrel since my last several groups were very good and I did not clean before leaving the range.

I do not shoot competitively. I just shred paper for fun. I know it would be cheaper to sit with a ream of paper and tear it up, but shooting in very cold weather off a concrete bench seemed like more fun when I started.
 
There is no reason to think you're hurting the barrel. There is nothing wrong with a clean barrel, and nothing 'good' about copper fouling. So clean away.
The problem is re-fouling.

You could pre-foul so that you're no longer wasting shots (beyond warmups, if needed).
I do this right after cleaning to dry white metal, with a dry burnishing of tungsten.
This is for hunting capability, and the first shot is as solid as any cold shots to follow.
 
I stopped taking my cleaning paraphernalia to the range when, after forgetting it one day, determined that after 50 rounds groups were excellent. The next range trip with that rifle, with no cleaning in between, shot just as well. I used to go by what Dennis told me, namely, I wasn't cleaning enough. That was when I was cleaning every 50. I switched to every 25. Now it might be every several hundred.
 
I think this is closely related to barrel break in.

A barrel that is broken in well shows much less copper fouling, cleans easier and probably takes less shots to foul after cleaning because it's mostly powder fouling.

If you use a good break in procedure, monitor it with the bore scope and experiment with the number of shots between cleanings, you should be able to figure out what your barrel likes.
 
old_dood said:
I stopped taking my cleaning paraphernalia to the range when, after forgetting it one day, determined that after 50 rounds groups were excellent. The next range trip with that rifle, with no cleaning in between, shot just as well. I used to go by what Dennis told me, namely, I wasn't cleaning enough. That was when I was cleaning every 50. I switched to every 25. Now it might be every several hundred.
Click to expand...
I used to clean every time I use my rifle I would never put it away dirty that is how I was taught in the last five years everything has changed with getting into long range shooting and reloading now I have learned to clean when the Acuracy begins to fall off
 
This is no absolute answer to your question because there is no absolute proof positive cleaning procedure. And every rifle can be different. The best indicator of your cleaning procedure is your rifle target.

What I've learned in over 4 decades of shooting is to clean the barrel following the directions of the solvent maker. I do not use or ever intend to use a bore scope to access the adequacy of cleaning. If the final patch comes up clean I consider the rifle cleaned - period.

If you clean your barrel routinely to prevent excessive carbon and copper built up you should be fine. I clean every 30 to 40 rounds followed by a light coat of low viscosity lube. Before shooting out of a clean barrel I run a dry patch down the barrel to remove any excess lube and I dry patch the chamber.

I've never had a problem with first shot flyers but my frame of reference is precision varmint / predator hunting where my precision standards are probably not as high as a bench rest shooter.
 
I think it is totally a function of the barrel, good barrels to don't care much. I had a 308 Obermeyer 1:8.5 on a M70 Match Rifle that shot exactly the same, from the first shot ("totally clean" & cold) to the 88th shot. In fact all of my "match" rifle barrels (Obermeyer, Kreiger, Criterion & Bartlien), have never seemed to care much about about being "clean" or not so much.
 
There is a reason we clean barrels like we do. Don't let the teslong cause you to change what works.

HD video on TV is the same thing. People are now freaked out by things that were fine before....

The internet tells people how many germs are where and we are becoming a germaphobic society.

My point is don't overreact to new information.

--Jerry
 
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