How accurate is your 223?

[Snuggie]

I agree with Gary.

Rookie, if you're still reading, look at that above post. Clearly, despite their username being a little "progressive", the shooter doesn't suck at this stuff. It takes about 98.5% shooting to assure yourself of points margin to "MAKE" High Master.

For F-T/R, that's a 1 MOA 10-ring at 300/500/600. I'd be willing to bet that 50% of those tnes were inside the 1/2 Minute X-ring as well.

If you need to shoot smaller groups than 3-5" at 600 yards, you probably do indeed need a bigger cartridge.

Bob Gill, a pretty "okay" Long Range guy, also chooses to shoot .223 at 1,000 yards. He is a bit of a masochist to be sure, but he does succeed at some of the highest levels.

Progressive!?

 

[rookie7]

I agree with Gary.

Rookie, if you're still reading, look at that above post. Clearly, despite their username being a little "progressive", the shooter doesn't suck at this stuff. It takes about 98.5% shooting to assure yourself of points margin to "MAKE" High Master.

For F-T/R, that's a 1 MOA 10-ring at 300/500/600. I'd be willing to bet that 50% of those tnes were inside the 1/2 Minute X-ring as well.

If you need to shoot smaller groups than 3-5" at 600 yards, you probably do indeed need a bigger cartridge.

Bob Gill, a pretty "okay" Long Range guy, also chooses to shoot .223 at 1,000 yards. He is a bit of a masochist to be sure, but he does succeed at some of the highest levels.

Morning,

Yep, I'm still reading. I don't have anything to add to the discussion - I'm just listening.

My question has been answered though. Looks to me like if I have a 223 built with quality components - say Bighorn Origin, 24 or 26" heavy varmint cut rifled barrel, calvin elite (I have already), bedded to a good stock - I should see with quality handloads and if I am up to the task 1/4" to 3/8" 5 shot groups at 100 on a consistent basis.

That answers my question, and is what I am looking for.

If I go the Bighorn Origin route that allows me to just buy a new bolt head and barrel = 6br when funds allow.

If I go this route the unanswered question would be 1/7" twist or 1/8" twist for the 223? I will probably live life around a 69 smk, but would like to experiment with the 75 and up crowd.

I am trying hard to NOT take the easy route - resist buying a Tikka T3X varmint in 223 (1/8 twist) or Remington 700 5R stainless with 24" tube in 223 (1/9 twist). Both can be had for under $800 which is very tempting.

 

[rebs]

I have a Tikka T3x varmint and it is an excellent rifle right out of the box. I would take it over a Remington

 

[butchlambert]

Not a regular 223 but my 223ai is a savage target action with a brux 1-8 30” barrel and its shoots pretty consistent 1/4 moa or less at 100 and 1.5” groups or less at 420yards is very common.

Target pictures?

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Morning,

Yep, I'm still reading. I don't have anything to add to the discussion - I'm just listening.

My question has been answered though. Looks to me like if I have a 223 built with quality components - say Bighorn Origin, 24 or 26" heavy varmint cut rifled barrel, calvin elite (I have already), bedded to a good stock - I should see with quality handloads and if I am up to the task 1/4" to 3/8" 5 shot groups at 100 on a consistent basis.

That answers my question, and is what I am looking for.

If I go the Bighorn Origin route that allows me to just buy a new bolt head and barrel = 6br when funds allow.

If I go this route the unanswered question would be 1/7" twist or 1/8" twist for the 223? I will probably live life around a 69 smk, but would like to experiment with the 75 and up crowd.

I am trying hard to take the easy route - resist buying a Tikka T3X varmint in 223 (1/8 twist) or Remington 700 5R stainless with 24" tube in 223 (1/9 twist). Both can be had for under $800 which is very tempting.

Another option for just a fun .223, might be that 700 Varmint that Cabela’s has on sale right now. 26” barrel,and drop it in a decent 700 replacement stock. Around $400 with sale and mail in rebate.

 

[natdscott]

Morning,

Yep, I'm still reading. I don't have anything to add to the discussion - I'm just listening.

My question has been answered though. Looks to me like if I have a 223 built with quality components - say Bighorn Origin, 24 or 26" heavy varmint cut rifled barrel, calvin elite (I have already), bedded to a good stock - I should see with quality handloads and if I am up to the task 1/4" to 3/8" 5 shot groups at 100 on a consistent basis.

That answers my question, and is what I am looking for.

If I go the Bighorn Origin route that allows me to just buy a new bolt head and barrel = 6br when funds allow.

If I go this route the unanswered question would be 1/7" twist or 1/8" twist for the 223? I will probably live life around a 69 smk, but would like to experiment with the 75 and up crowd.

I am trying hard to NOT take the easy route - resist buying a Tikka T3X varmint in 223 (1/8 twist) or Remington 700 5R stainless with 24" tube in 223 (1/9 twist). Both can be had for under $800 which is very tempting.

Even in 20" barrels, 8-twist is plenty for the lead core 70-class bullets in almost any condition. The 7-twist shoots fine, and provides more margin of stability if you plan on shooting in the arctic; it also stabilizes steel core, where I am not certain 8-twist will.

A 20" 8.0 twist will stabilize the 80 SMK and 82 Berger. I can't speak for some of the newer bullets, or VLD designs.

The 69 Sierra is very comfortable in the 8.0 and 7.7" barrels. I can't speak for the 7, as I never used 69's in one. It is a WONDERFUL bullet that is very easy to get along with, and provides reasonably good ballistic performance.

Between the 69 SMK, the 73 Berger, and the 77 SMK...it would be a hard decision for me in an 8 twist for which one would hammer best.

They are all three just GREAT bullets..."well balanced" is a term I like to use, and by that I mean they are jump tolerant, tolerant of some runout, tolerant of being fed up feed ramps and into autoloaders without major distortion of group size, shoot well with a variety of neck tensions, don't shred jackets at the least barrel disturbance, etc.

 

[moorepower]

Back in the 90's when I was shooting an AR in Highpower, a 1-8 was THE twist for 80 grain bullets. Just a few 7.7tw were starting to hit the market.

 

[Geno C]

Target pictures?

This was shot by my wife’s friend in the little 420 shoot that we go to. She’d never shot a rifle bigger than a 22 before that day. It was snowing so bad that you couldn’t hardly see the target this was shot the year before.

I don’t have any other target pics for this one. If I get a chance and remember. I’ll try to get a 5 group target together at 100 or 2 if you’d like

 

[Geno C]

These are the conditions she shot in. The target is in a hole In the trees, to the top left of the P.

 

[swadiver]

should have my Shilen Select match 14 twist .222 barrel here by mid july. gonna be a shoot off between it and my current fantastic .223 Shilen Select match 14 twister. big fun, fer sure

speaking of Shilen select match barrels, this .222 SM will be the first Shilen i have ordered directly from them . looks like it is going to be just at 4 months to get the chambered barrel. is is lead time normal for Shilen?

 

[Ned Ludd]

Morning,

Yep, I'm still reading. I don't have anything to add to the discussion - I'm just listening.

My question has been answered though. Looks to me like if I have a 223 built with quality components - say Bighorn Origin, 24 or 26" heavy varmint cut rifled barrel, calvin elite (I have already), bedded to a good stock - I should see with quality handloads and if I am up to the task 1/4" to 3/8" 5 shot groups at 100 on a consistent basis.

That answers my question, and is what I am looking for.

If I go the Bighorn Origin route that allows me to just buy a new bolt head and barrel = 6br when funds allow.

If I go this route the unanswered question would be 1/7" twist or 1/8" twist for the 223? I will probably live life around a 69 smk, but would like to experiment with the 75 and up crowd.

I am trying hard to NOT take the easy route - resist buying a Tikka T3X varmint in 223 (1/8 twist) or Remington 700 5R stainless with 24" tube in 223 (1/9 twist). Both can be had for under $800 which is very tempting.

This really depends on how you intend to shoot most often with it. My suggestion would simply be to use the heaviest, highest BC bullets that are appropriate for the distances you intend to shoot. They will buy you the most forgiveness in terms of resistance to wind deflection, which is always a consideration for the .223 Rem. Loading heavy .224" bullets with outstanding precision/accuracy is not an issue. There are a variety of good bullets available in the 70, 80, or even 90 gr range, although I'd suggest staying away from the 90s for a number of reasons unless you plan to compete with this rifle. For bullets in the 70-80 gr range, an 8-, or 7-twist barrel will generally be just fine. At the 80 gr end of that bullet weight range, you may also want to check the bullet manufacturer's recommended twist rates just to be sure.

One other thing to remember, with heavier .224" bullets (if you decide to go that route), a longer barrel (26"+) will help you to keep the velocity reasonable. I'd resist going with just any old factory rifle for the primary reasons that they often come with either insufficient twist rates for heavy bullets and/or insufficient barrel length to push them very fast. If you buy a commercial rifle (and my understanding is that the Tikkas are excellent), make sure it doesn't have too slow of a twist rate for your intended use and be so short as to limit performance with heavier bullets.

 

[skiutah02]

Very. 600yds, FClass MR Nationals, Team match. 90vld

 

[butchlambert]

speaking of Shilen select match barrels, this .222 SM will be the first Shilen i have ordered directly from them . looks like it is going to be just at 4 months to get the chambered barrel. is is lead time normal for Shilen?

Barrels ship much faster than that. You might find a good smith and have Shilen ship the barrel to them.

 

[swadiver]

Barrels ship much faster than that. You might find a good smith and have Shilen ship the barrel to them.

thanks. that is what i normally do with my Krieger, Bartlein, etc barrels i buy. however with this Shilen that is coming, being a Select Match, it took 3 months for them just to get a blank to chamber. i chose to let them chamber it this time, based on the awesome performance of my .223 Shilen SM i bought used that was chambered by Shilen as well.

 

[butchlambert]

thanks. that is what i normally do with my Krieger, Bartlein, etc barrels i buy. however with this Shilen that is coming, being a Select Match, it took 3 months for them just to get a blank to chamber. i chose to let them chamber it this time, based on the awesome performance of my .223 Shilen SM i bought used that was chambered by Shilen as well.

No doubt it will shoot. Kinda a long wait.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Very. 600yds, FClass MR Nationals, Team match. 90vld

View attachment 1110412

What brass are you using?

 

[skiutah02]

What brass are you using?

Lapua

 

[Dgd6mm]

Lapua

Thanks

 

[7Fingers]

I’ve read how accurate the 6br is - basically it’s king - and in general beats the 223.

However, how accurate is your 223?

Are we talking a difference between the 2 calibers possibly a .3 moa rifle compared to a .4 moa?

Or is the real world difference larger?

Thank you

My 223s have surprised a lot of shooters, groups are amazing! 5 shot groups, any day all day long!

 

[butchlambert]

View attachment 1110584 View attachment 1110583

My 223s have surprised a lot of shooters, groups are amazing! 5 shot groups, any day all day long!View attachment 1110583View attachment 1110584

Do you have a target with 5-5shot groups on the same target?