hot rod 22 cartridge?

[calib]

I run a 22-250 Ai now at about 3325 with 75 a man's. I just got a barrel that just needs to be chambered and looking at pushing 75-80 grain bullets 3500 or better what would be a option that would be fairly easy to find components for that would do that.

 

[357Mag]

Calib -

Howdy !

I designed/shot my .22 wildcat ...... .35 Remington necked -down to .224" calibre.

From a 28" SS 1-8 5-groove K & P, I easily got 3,500fps straight-up; shooting 75 "A"-Max
over 40.5gr AA3100 and FED LR Magnum Match. Groups were good.

Accuracy load only required primer change in load, to FED LR Match; for 3,420. Groups were superb.

This is an honest, viable 1,000yd varmint rifle cartridge.

I'd be happu to talk w/ you more. PM if you so desire.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[bheadboy]

22x6mm rem AI
simple and fast
Bob

 

[benchracer]

22-243 and 22-284 will both do what you want, with slow powders and long barrels. I'm not sure how fast you can push those bullets, through a twist tight enough to stabilize them, before you start to have problems with bullet blowup. Rapid throat erosion may make that problem worse. Careful research could pay dividends with something like this. Might not be a bad idea to call Hornady to see what you can find out about velocity/twist limits for their bullets.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

22x6mm rem AI
simple and fast
Bob

Still working on finding a load for mine. A Bartlein cut @ 24" with 8.5 twist(Frank had this that buyer didn't follow through on,wanted an 8 but.....no patience-LOL) Plan at the time was to shoot the 75Amax. However, I bought the reamer which was new from a gent I believe on here and he didn't know/remember freebore etc, in fact he had listed it as a straight 22/244 and realized it when he dug it out to mail me. He offered a refund but I was "ship that sucka anyhoo"! Found out after chambering that to lands would be about 2.930ish. So rounded up some 70 VLD Berger at the time that seated at 2.810ish would be about .030 off. Win fireformed case with 210M primer and H4831SC which was my only choice from local FFL. So my decision to do a 22/244AI was stumbling on this reamer and a couple years later a set of dies off GB. So it 'seemed like' a perfect solution to my problem or the problem I thought I had.lol

My logic was a real fast flat shooter to use on coyotes I had no time or opportunity to range while my ole disabled welfare butt road hunts which is legal here for varmints. Have been using my XC with 107's with great luck but with RV contour barrel and BP 'pounder' stock I sometimes am not in a position to spot my misses. So if I can range first or they are standing @ 300+ I grab the XC and this would hopefully be better/flatter with a better wind bullet than the factory recut 22/250AI with 50BT I have been using. Never claimed to be real smart and thought even though rifle was a bit lighter and a 70ish grain projectile. Well, not until after the fact did I remember that powder charge weight also has a contribution to recoil or lack of. So with the 24" tube and 50+ grains of powder the muzzle blast and recoil are wayyyyyyyy more than I expected or hoped for, borderline horrendous.lol So still trying to figure out if the stiffer recoil and how my new style 3 leade pacer works is my issues with grouping, my machine knowledge or lack of or my loads?

So I couldn't use the bullet I had planned on and I didn't realize what the recoil would be or so far not getting the 1/2" or more consistent groups I wanted! Just didn't think it could have that much more recoil or muzzle blast than a 22/250AI with 50BR and 39gr of IMR4895. Haven't convinced myself either I should throw more money at it with using a Wyatt box etc.

Lack of data and the component shortages has made this difficult to start with. I found a couple boxes of the Berger 70VLD back then so I started @ 49gr of H4831SC which was just under 3400fps and went to 53.5 grain in .3 increments. At 53.5 my velocity was 3740ish but groups opened to almost 1" and SD over 20 IIRC. Been a year or more now so going on memory vs. trying to find printer tape.

A couple of weeks back I finally felt decent and had a day with little wind so tried some different combo's and replaced the T-10 I was using for testing with an older Balvar 2.5x10 with AO. Loaded all rounds with 50gr of H4831SC, 210M and overall length of 2.810" to fit mag box.

Sierra 69 Match King 3560fps No SD as sun was setting and 35P was missing some only time for 1 3 shot

Berger 70VLD 3573fps SD 6 Only 1 3 shot group

Hornady 75BTHP #1 3499fps SD 15 Clean so went with 4 with first @ 3484fps then 3504,3491,3518
#2 3498fps SD 4
#3 3510fps SD 6

These groups were all under moa with all 3 bullets. Most had 2 shots close or touching/overlapping but 1 shot out 1/2" or so
Not knowing if the 1/2" or so is from my pacer/heart rhythm is what I am fighting or it is a load issue. I haven't experimented with bullet seating as I need a repeater. Just get to flinching if not from muzzle blast it is trying to always drop the pin when I am to one side or another and have caught myself jerking or whatever. Eating up the short life of this blaster because of my ignorance, issues or whatever???? About 150rds down it just trying to get a load and a feel for this darn thing. For some reason it isn't nearly as good of an idea as it seemed at one time! The bummer is chambering this nice Bartlein with such a long cartridge and how I had Frank contour it to fit my plan I cannot redo it to much else. Had a solid pilot 22/250AI I had recut the factory barrel with and sold it figuring this would fill the bill vs. building another one and not a solid pilot fan. So with blank cost, reamer cost, what I paid for the dies(which was a fourth of a new set) and all the components I have burned through it is like throwing more money down the well. Guess I am more frustrated with not knowing if it is me/my health issues or...................?

Guess my point is with cost of dies, availability currently of brass, recoil for a 22 cal and related overbore issues, lack of published data it wouldn't be something I would do again if I had a choice! Edit to add that unless you are wanting to see how fast you can shoot the lighter bullets the 6mm Remington case runs into mag length issues, at least with Remington 700 short actions. For any longer high BC bullets whether necked up or down a long action is better suited. Think the 243/284 cases are the max length otherwise powder capacity/pressure along with OAL make it too problematic for any velocity advantage you are looking for. Just my .02 cents worth however.

Respectfully,
Dennis

 

[daniel brothers]

my 22-243AI shoots 90 gr bergers at 3400... and 80 gr amaxes at 3500

 

[357Mag]

Calib & SDWhilrwind _

Howdy !

Please check your PM's.


With regards,
357Mag

 

[calib]

Thanks for the replies, the barrel I a 9 twist 27" barrel I went with 9 because I think with the amped up power or velocity it should not have trouble spinning the a max or anything 75 or below. Have looked at the cheetah before and should do ok, but kind of worried about the short neck. Kind of like the 22-6mm Ai for the neck, the Ai, but brass availability may be a bit difficult.

Would like to keep case forming to a minimum neck down is simple with a fire form.

I do like the 75 a max I have kills so far with it to 630 plus yards nd all are dirt one shot.

 

[OIF/OEF]

I shoot a 12 twist 22-243 its a hammer. I tried 90 SMK's without success but the 80's are great. I caught some crap from the local guys but I like the idea of the higher BC .22 cal bullets at warp speed. I haven't shot it in a while Ill try and find some load data for it. I need to get it out and shoot it we are covered up in Coyotes this year

 

[calib]

Sounds good oif\oef keep me posted. I would be interested in what you have going. Where you located?

 

[22XC Guy]

Hi calib,

Here's an interesting and similar post..

Steve

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3788825.0

 

[40X Guy]

Hi Calib, I'm late to the party here and 22XC guy linked a great thread here for you. I strongly suggest a .220 Swift with a nice modern stainless 8 twist heavy barrel finished at 28 inches. No case forming chores, Norma brass is available as is Winchester brass and you just can't beat a Swift for downrange performance..

My newest Swift sports a Rock Creek barrel with .254 neck and freebore of .078 set up for the 75 A-Max. I am trimming the case necks on the Norma brass to a loaded diameter of .252 and after trying a few powders that were less than satisfactory, I came up with a load of 39.8 N550 under the 75 A- max for a chronyed speed of 3,551 fps and an ES of 2. This load is absolutely devastating on chucks and with a 200 yard zero I can pretty much aim dead on up to 400 yards. I actually had this powder up to 40.4 and thats where pressure started showing its signs.. Velocity was a true 3,659 fps with an ES of 13 but groups were bigger.

The Swift is already the king out the gate of hotrod 22 cal cartridges and is also overbore, I considered before I started this build on going with the .220 AI but left it at the stock configuration. With the modern barrels, powders, bullets etc. we have the today the Swift will always be king in my book.. Just hearing that 75 A-Max at speed when it thwacks/thumps a chuck and pops it in the air 2 feet makes it all worth it.

I do not know if your 9 twist barrel would work with an amped up 22 cal, shooting 75's, but i have heard and read that .223's with 9 twists stabilize 75 A-Max, by going with the 8 twist I eliminated any doubt. Pic attached is of my standard Swift on left with 55 BT's and on the right with the 75 A-Max.

I have owned and played with a 22-284, and a 22-243AI years ago but have always had at least 1 Swift in my collection.. Some of those other cals listed in this thread will entail a lot more work brass prep wise and also doing load workups plus burn more powder. I had no real prior knowledge of this 8 twist project but dived right in and learned a lot. That's half the fun..

Frank

 

[bheadboy]

looking at 40x guy's pictures, I am concerned about the pressure ring at the web head 3/8 inch above the base of the case,

I have always considered this to be a signal to back off as the brass is expanding significantly at its weakest point and being sized back down.

can lead to seperation
Bob

 

[40X Guy]

bheadboy, you are going to have pressure with any hot rod .22 cal, and some more than others. Whats the use of having a hot rod/wildcatted 22 cal if you don't run them on the edge? I have never had a case head separation and always keep my eye on my cases before and after FL sizing. Either by running my Hawkeye borescope inside of cases and or using small scribes and trying to feel anything weird inside the case at area mentioned. These hot rod 22 cal cases are not meant to be fired 15-25 times like 6 Dasher cases or something near that realm. The Norma brass on the right in pic have 3 firing's on them and I am hoping to get 5-6 firing's out of them, but i believe that the primers pockets will loosen up before any case separation. Point well taken and a very good point concerning these hot rod's..

Frank

 

[OIF/OEF]

Calib Im in North Eastern Oklahoma I live about 20 miles from Pawnee. Were covered up in dogs this year so Ill shoot the barrel out of this thing or try at least ha.

 

[calib]

That could be a lot of fun burning a barrel a year on dogs.

So I have 243 brass and have thought about 22 243 Ai but is the much difference between it and a 22 250 ai? Not sure that the 220 swift is gonna make the cut, but if an Ackley would out do the 22 243 then it might work out. I think the 22 284 may be a little large I am going to Pu t this on a S/a savage most likely.

 

[SDWhirlwind]

If you want a hotrod that perhaps feeds better than an AI 40 degree version the 22-243 Middlestead is quite popular with its 30 degree shoulder.Down side to many of these hotrods is buying/finding a reasonably priced set of dies. At least the Swift or 22/250AI don't cost one or more Franklins just for a die set so you can buy more brass instead. Smith friend of mine in ND has chambered over 30 of them and every customer has been a happy camper.

I have owned 4 Swifts, 2 on mausers and 2 Ruger 77's. My first new rifle I bought in '75 was a M77. Shot a lot of chit with it but was always trimming brass and fighting the semi rimmed case when I didn't load the mag right. Have no desire for another. The Swift and the 22-250 suffer the same 'always trimming' issue with their body taper. I owned and enjoyed shooting a 22/250AI and would consider it above all others I have owned/shot as for big hotrod 22's.

For everyone that thinks a certain wildcat/improved is the cats butt you will find one or more that doesn't agree. So I am not saying anyone else's choice is a bad one but having shot numerous ones I am only relaying my experiences and opinions. YMMV

Respectfully,
Dennis

 

[calib]

Thanks Dennis I have the 22-250 ai now and am not getting quite the speed I would like. It is a great round and hit lots of stuff with
Just would like to make something fast, hit hard and where I aim it

I'll do some more research and see what I can find. Maybe I will figure something out soon and start making some moves to start acquiring to gear for it.

 

[13red56]

I'm running a 22-243 with a 30* improved shoulder. It resembles the Middlestead but the shoulder junction is moved forward like an AI case. I'm using RL25 and IMR 7828 in a 26" 8 twist Kreiger barrel. The RL25 is pushing the Sierra 80 SMK at 3525. The 7828 is pushing the Nosler 80 CC at 3550. I am getting 5-6 firing on RP nickel plated brass before the primer pockets start to feel loose. I use the 75 Amax and the 75 HPBT to form brass and I'm using Superformance for those loads and they are running 3625. My forming loads consistently shoot 1/2" with the 75's. Both loads for the 80gr bullets consistently shoot 3/8" and most linger around 1/4" with 5 shots at 100 yards. The barrel has around 600 rounds through it and I haven't had to move my seating depth and chase the lands yet.

In my opinion if u go with a 22-243 or bigger wildcat then I advise running as slow a powder as u can b/c my experience has proved they seem to get the better speeds as well as accuracy.

 

[John from MN]

22-243 and 22-284 will both do what you want, with slow powders and long barrels. I'm not sure how fast you can push those bullets, through a twist tight enough to stabilize them, before you start to have problems with bullet blowup. Rapid throat erosion may make that problem worse. Careful research could pay dividends with something like this. Might not be a bad idea to call Hornady to see what you can find out about velocity/twist limits for their bullets.

I've toasted quite a few 22-243 barrels.

When my barrels are fresh, the 75 and 80 grain Amaxes will withstand 3600+. After they've got a few inches of firecracking, I normally have to back speeds down to 3500 or less to avoid blowups and maintain accuracy. Certainly, others may be getting different results.