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HORRIBLE BRASS

I just had the chance to shoot in a rifle tournament for the first time in my life at the SW Nationals last week.
I had been using Lapua brass for my 6MMSLR but decided to switch to Winchester as it is so much easier to resize the necks. I have used Win brass for this gun many times in the past.
I bought 100 rounds from Brunos and did all the case prep to make up my loads.
I was really surprised at the ease the primers seated. I always seat all my primers with hand-held Hornaday primer.
At the practices on Mo and Tue I noticed I was getting signs of smoke around the primers on about 1/3 of all cases fired. This is new, virgin brass.
I'm using the exact loads I have proven with Lapua and WW brass prior to this. 43.5 gr of RL19 and it cronos at 3100 to 3150. Absolutely no signs of overpressure.
I took 50 of them to the final matches at 1,000 yards on Sa and shot a 193 7X so was really pleased but still concerned about the primer situation.
The final three shots of the morning match were 10s with one X. my sighters for the final match Sa afternoon were 10s so I told the scorer I was ready to go on record. First shot, 10X second shot was a 10, but it blew the primer out completely and stuck a piece of it under the bolt face so I could not open the bolt. Nothing we tried including a hammer would open the bolt enough to remove the shrapnel. So my match was fini.
Also, some of my rounds did not even fire when I pulled the trigger and barely made a dimple in the primer face. So the pockets were not uniform in depth either.
I have since deprimed the brass I used and cleaned it to reload and the primer pockets are so loose I can almost use the primers into them with my thumb. One load and they are junk. At a $1 each that is a little pricey. I anneal my brass so usually get 12 to 15 or more, loads out of them.
I had also noted during my case prep that when I weighed the brass, the margins over a 100 pieces ranged almost 4 grains. I actually have 4 different weight groups within 1 grain and 3 that were so far out they are culled.
Compare this with my Lapua brass and there are two groups and one round culled.
I don't know how to contact Win to tell them of this, but a heads-up to you guys if you are loading new, win brass.
This batch, two bags of 50 each are junk.
 
unclefudd,
First off, congrats on your first outing at the SW Nationals. I've never shot it, but have had the opportunity to go and watch as an observer to learn from experts and shooters, not to mention to view some of the beautiful equipment and pieces they shoot. But I will admit, I cringed when reading your next line about changing brass from Lapua to Winchester for the event. As you quickly found, that brass (IMHO) does a complete dis-service to your finely tuned rifle. But you did do yourself a favor in quickly learning what to do and what not to do in competition. I enjoy testing brass occasionally(mostly because of an inquisitive mind). But Winchester is NOT a brand I was ever enamored with or that proved it was worthy of a serious and accurate endeavor, although great for hunting. Good luck in the future and do keep coming back to the Nationals. Hope to see your name at atop one of those scores sheets in the future.

Alex
 
First of all “smoke around the primers” usually means it is leaking and you are likely having your bolt face etched – have you checked?
 
I had the same exact experience you describe. Very first piece the primer went in loose so I switched brands of primers and they went in tight. Of course I'm almost out of Tula primers now and can't find anymore.
 
WW is usually pretty good brass, but never deserves to be compared with Lapua. WW will NEVER equal the quality of Lapua no matter how much time you spend prepping. Never met a serious competitor who viewed WW brass as an option if they want to win, or even place for that matter.

Problem is probably the brass, but I would also recommend trying a different brand primer to see if the seating pressure is the same. Could be undersized primers.
 
In a recent magazine article, the writer told of cases blowing out in the 9mm Glock. When it happens,
it is always Winchester brass. This is a Master Class IDPA shooter and trainer.
 
I have shot Winchester brass fairly successfully before in a Winchester .284...but, I bought 1,000 cases initially that I worked up for competition in the amount of around 600 cases!! That easily closes the price differential for buying Lapua! Now days, I shoot Lapua, although Winchester primer pockets seem to last much longer: 10 to 12 firings. Tried the new Norma's...ho hum.

Dan
 
Winchester brass is fine in an impingement or piston gun
Once it clears the ejection port it's relegated to the brass junk bucket!
 
Also had bad luck with Winchester .243 brass in the SLR. Fought it for 3 or 4 years before breaking down and buying 1000 Lapua cases. Now it's like magic.
 
I too tried winchester for 6 slr and had bad luck. I ended up blowing out a primer as well. I had trouble with inconsistent pressure and eventually retired the barrel.
 
Winchester brass in my experience is garbage brass. The primer pockets would go loose in 1-2 firings, and I got a lot of split necks in a few firings too.
 
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My current batch of 300 (same lot #) Winchester 243win brass also has a weight variance of almost 4 grains :mad:... Bought about 6 months ago but only started using it a couple weeks ago so it's still on it's first firing. Primer pockets are very tight as they should be with virgin brass.

My last batch of 300 pcs (3 different lots and 60 pcs from factory ammo) had a weight variance of 2.2 gr !!! o_O .... I decided to retire it since it had 20 reloads on it, even tho I have not scrapped any pieces nor have the primer pockets loosened any.
 
Also had bad luck with Winchester .243 brass in the SLR. Fought it for 3 or 4 years before breaking down and buying 1000 Lapua cases. Now it's like magic.

I've had the opposite experience with 243win brass. I bought Lapua brass and was not able to get consistent small groups like I do with Winchester brass. I thought it might get better on the second firing, but that was not the case. I went back to Winchester brass.
:confused:
 
I've had the opposite experience with 243win brass. I bought Lapua brass and was not able to get consistent small groups like I do with Winchester brass. I thought it might get better on the second firing, but that was not the case. I went back to Winchester brass.
:confused:

If you were also using it for a SLR, the Lapua brass needs to be neck turned before use for it to work in that cartridge.
 
If you were also using it for a SLR, the Lapua brass needs to be neck turned before use for it to work in that cartridge.

This was in a straight 243win... I was thinking of skimming the necks a little. When I fire the Lapua brass I get soot at the bottom of the neck whereas with Winchester brass the soot is up top, hence why I think turning the necks might solve this brass imbroglio.

Going off memory, I think I have 0.0045" neck clearance in the chamber with the Lapua brass and 0.0065" with the Winchester.
 
Thanks guys
I REALLY appreciate this feedback and experiences. I have prepped, loaded and shot win brass in this gun prior to this. I just got lazy thinking about the prep time and effort for the Lapua brass and I paid the price. The bolt is now toast. I,m going to order a new one today.
I have 4 of the brass that I fired one time and all four of them I can place the primer in the pocket with my thumb and they fall out as soon as I turn them up.
I wasted the $100 plus for this laziness but it goes into the never do again box. lol
The Nationals was a great experience. I met, shot with, scored and pulled and marked targets with several different guys over the week and every one a friend now. They knew it was my first ever match and they were great and very patient in explaining and helping me.
And yes, the equipment is out of this world. I still can't get over some of the front rests and rear bags. The gun lines up perfectly after each shot just by pushing it forward to the front stop.
I had to wrestle my gun and stock after every single shot to get it back on line and level.
But I learned and had a lot of fun doing it.

UF
 
I just had the chance to shoot in a rifle tournament for the first time in my life at the SW Nationals last week.
I had been using Lapua brass for my 6MMSLR but decided to switch to Winchester as it is so much easier to resize the necks. I have used Win brass for this gun many times in the past.
I bought 100 rounds from Brunos and did all the case prep to make up my loads.
I was really surprised at the ease the primers seated. I always seat all my primers with hand-held Hornaday primer.
At the practices on Mo and Tue I noticed I was getting signs of smoke around the primers on about 1/3 of all cases fired. This is new, virgin brass.
I'm using the exact loads I have proven with Lapua and WW brass prior to this. 43.5 gr of RL19 and it cronos at 3100 to 3150. Absolutely no signs of overpressure.
I took 50 of them to the final matches at 1,000 yards on Sa and shot a 193 7X so was really pleased but still concerned about the primer situation.
The final three shots of the morning match were 10s with one X. my sighters for the final match Sa afternoon were 10s so I told the scorer I was ready to go on record. First shot, 10X second shot was a 10, but it blew the primer out completely and stuck a piece of it under the bolt face so I could not open the bolt. Nothing we tried including a hammer would open the bolt enough to remove the shrapnel. So my match was fini.
Also, some of my rounds did not even fire when I pulled the trigger and barely made a dimple in the primer face. So the pockets were not uniform in depth either.
I have since deprimed the brass I used and cleaned it to reload and the primer pockets are so loose I can almost use the primers into them with my thumb. One load and they are junk. At a $1 each that is a little pricey. I anneal my brass so usually get 12 to 15 or more, loads out of them.
I had also noted during my case prep that when I weighed the brass, the margins over a 100 pieces ranged almost 4 grains. I actually have 4 different weight groups within 1 grain and 3 that were so far out they are culled.
Compare this with my Lapua brass and there are two groups and one round culled.
I don't know how to contact Win to tell them of this, but a heads-up to you guys if you are loading new, win brass.
This batch, two bags of 50 each are junk.

At one time we had to sort, weigh, and measure brass hopping to find a uniform lot. Win is not bad it just means it was manufactured to a different set of specifications.
 

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