Did anyone else have issues with hornady Vmax not penetrating before disintegrating and just inflicting external damage on a head shot?? I was running 223 AI 55gn vmax with 27.2gn Benchmark 2 Winchester brass and 7 1/2 rem primers. It became such an issue I sold my bulk pack and changed to nosler and have had no further issues, the noslers inflict max damage but only after proper penetration. Hornady projectiles seem so popular I can’t work out if this is common or I just got a bad batch
Hornady VMax no penetration!?
- Thread starter Ozshot
- Start date
I guess I am an outlier I do not care for Hornady , I much prefer berger
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
That V-Max is a thin jacket varmint bullet designed to disintegrate on contact with just about anything.
It is sufficient for rodents, varmints, and the like less than 50 lbs, but starting to get questionable on anything larger..
What did you use it on?
What is your twist rate and what is your velocity?
I have loaded 1000's of 53gr VMax rounds without a single issue and yes they shoot extremely well....LOL
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
At 22-250 velocities, the vmax is a b list coyote bullet. As mentioned if you chest shoot, stay off edges, shots well over 100 yards. You probably won't have bad sewing sessions. I much prefer Nosler BT, Bart's 52 or the Speer 52 hp(large meplat) for less fur damage. If fur isn't saved vmax the stuffing out of them. In 50 years of shooting coyote/Fox, I had one weird rifle/bullet combo. I purchased a R700 22-250 sporter, load work up was terrible(at that time I had no case/chamber measuring equipment). Finally settled on the 55 Nosler. A dozen times over a couple winters I had a bullet ricochet off the forehead, distances from 100-325 yards. Coyotes were sleeping and I would slip around in front and take the between the eyes shot. Only 22-250 barrel I have shot that that has happened. When I had it rebarreled, smith said the chamber was out of spec/funky. Most of the time no other issues, bullets often stayed in the skull, body shots, smaller easy to sew exits(if at all). I was starting them just over 3600 fps. Shooting winter fur here, that makes a difference, less hair less surface resistance.
Guess I need to know what you are shooting at first. Big game? Small game? All bullets have there place. Vmax has worked well for the intended target. Going past that not some much. I have always have good accuracy out of them but I pick my target, just like Berger bullets, you need to match bullet with what you are intend to shoot.
pdhntr
Silver $$ Contributor
First of all, give me/us some information that we can work with.
"external damage on a head shot". What are you shooting? It would help to know just how substantial the skull bones are of what you are shooting? Roos?
The V-max was not designed to shoot through bones or skull. It was designed to blow up little thin skinned rodents and for that, it works very well. You didn't get a bad batch.
You want a 223 bulllet that was designed to shoot through bones/skull without blowing up. Sierra makes a 55, 62 and a 65 Gameking. I can recommend the 55 and the 65, I have not tried the 62. There are others that would likely work also.
Jim
The "V" in VMax stands for Varmint. As others have indicated the bullet has a thin copper jacket. It is designed to be frangible, expand/disintegrate upon contact. Otherwise, a standard bullet would just pass clean through when shooting a squirrel, prairie dog, coyote or similar size game (not enough resistance to expand). Furthermore, the faster the bullet is traveling the more explosive and immediate the expansion of the VMax. Most varmint cartridges are light bullets traveling toward the upper range of speed for a given caliber.
VMax start acting more like a traditional bullet (better penetration) when they are not doing peak velocity. For example a 110gr VMax shot out of 308 Win is doing 3,300fps and immediately expands on contact. The same bullet loaded into a 300BO is only doing 2,250fps, and at this reduced velocity it will actually penetrate before expanding.
I had a friend mistakenly used .223 VMax ammo while pig hunting. He made a shoulder shot on 125# pig, and then it took us a while to track it down. Most of the damage was external and not immediately lethal. One small sliver of metal the diameter of a sewing needle managed to penetrate and perforated the heart. If not for that one fragment, the pig would have run off... and eventually died a few days later from the surface wound/crater getting infected.
Plenty of people use VMax to hunt deer and pigs, and with proper shot placement or multiple shots on target then it will get the job done. I prefer to match the bullet with the intended purpose.... there are bullets better designed for hunting larger game.
VMax start acting more like a traditional bullet (better penetration) when they are not doing peak velocity. For example a 110gr VMax shot out of 308 Win is doing 3,300fps and immediately expands on contact. The same bullet loaded into a 300BO is only doing 2,250fps, and at this reduced velocity it will actually penetrate before expanding.
I had a friend mistakenly used .223 VMax ammo while pig hunting. He made a shoulder shot on 125# pig, and then it took us a while to track it down. Most of the damage was external and not immediately lethal. One small sliver of metal the diameter of a sewing needle managed to penetrate and perforated the heart. If not for that one fragment, the pig would have run off... and eventually died a few days later from the surface wound/crater getting infected.
Plenty of people use VMax to hunt deer and pigs, and with proper shot placement or multiple shots on target then it will get the job done. I prefer to match the bullet with the intended purpose.... there are bullets better designed for hunting larger game.
You still haven't told us what you are shooting! Really no way to give you a good answer without this info. I have had great luck with V-maxes over the years.
Paul
Paul
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
Could be dingos, kangaroo
For what the Vmax is designed for they are perfect I use them on rabbits hares foxes no problem no good for roos not what their designed for if you shoot roo sized animals stick with Ballistic tips .
AckleymanII
Gold $$ Contributor
I skinned my last coyote in 1984, will not skin another till I kill a solid black one.
Coyotes have a will to live like no other animal, shoot one in half and don't be surprised if the other half is crawling or running off.
I have had great luck with the 55g Nosler ballistic tips, but my favorite is the 55g Sierra Spt, 55g Sierra BT Sp, 55g BTHP as they will all kill from all angles with great penetration, breaking bones along the way. 22/250 AI is a great cartridge with the 55's with zero freebore, shooting the 55's at 3950 out of a 24" barrel, 12-14 twist.
The Sierra 55g bthp is the toughest of these bullets, I can not stress this enough. The 55g Hornady with the cannalure is a very accurate bullet and is as tough as the Sierra 55g bthp.
After listening to all the talk of the speer 52 hp being so great, I worked up a load for a Ruger tang safety that I was taking to Mexico hunting coyotes. I did not want the Mex's to keep a good Remington, the Ruger was going to be the sacrificial lamb. We had several coyotes get up and hobble off with shoulder and hits on a rib with the speer 52g flying trash can bullets. So, we had to shoot the coyotes in the neck or head, and had to get picky on the shots. These speer 52's that were blowing up had a MV of 3550 and shots were 45-85 yards...it is a pitiful site to see a coyote with a coffee cup sized hole on his shoulder blade, standing up trying to figure out if he is dead or not....shock.
We had this one stand I will never forget with a Strong cold front moving in FAST, while down in Baja, Barometer in the truck indicated pressure dropping FAST!. On one stand, we had 4 coyotes down, and we could still hear them yapping coming in, racing each other to get to the call, from different directions. We put down three more, and should have shot more, but one guy could not focus on the gun handling because of his dang cigar! I looked up and two coyotes that I had shot were trying to walk off. I had to hit them again, then ran out and gave them a heart stomp. Cigar smoking partner was using my 1100 with 3", #4 buck, and he was deadly with it if he could just stop spinning that cigar in his fingers and flicking ashes.
It is idiotic to think that you only shoot a coyote behind the shoulders unless you let a lot of them walk, trott, or run off. You hit coyotes all over the body, front shoulders and rear quarters require the most of a bullet along with rear quartering shots when they are running away.
So, since we were only allowed 50 rounds per gun, two gun limit on a Mexican gun permit, we learned to make our rounds count. We would test bullets using two methods, hanging a fresh dead coyote from a fence/tree, shoot it square on the shoulder at 30 yards, then again at 85 yards. If the bullet/load did not blow up and penetrated, then that bullet was worth loading and taking to Mexico.
I always wanted to try and shoot several phone books that were Duct taped together but never got around to it. The talking heads say that shooting dry paper is a great way to test a bullets ability to penetrate bone.
Current political thinking is that you should a poly tip bullet due to BC, or you are some kind of retard. I will buck the trend.
I know several people that use the 53g and 55g V max for coyotes, they never complain.
Coyotes have a will to live like no other animal, shoot one in half and don't be surprised if the other half is crawling or running off.
I have had great luck with the 55g Nosler ballistic tips, but my favorite is the 55g Sierra Spt, 55g Sierra BT Sp, 55g BTHP as they will all kill from all angles with great penetration, breaking bones along the way. 22/250 AI is a great cartridge with the 55's with zero freebore, shooting the 55's at 3950 out of a 24" barrel, 12-14 twist.
The Sierra 55g bthp is the toughest of these bullets, I can not stress this enough. The 55g Hornady with the cannalure is a very accurate bullet and is as tough as the Sierra 55g bthp.
After listening to all the talk of the speer 52 hp being so great, I worked up a load for a Ruger tang safety that I was taking to Mexico hunting coyotes. I did not want the Mex's to keep a good Remington, the Ruger was going to be the sacrificial lamb. We had several coyotes get up and hobble off with shoulder and hits on a rib with the speer 52g flying trash can bullets. So, we had to shoot the coyotes in the neck or head, and had to get picky on the shots. These speer 52's that were blowing up had a MV of 3550 and shots were 45-85 yards...it is a pitiful site to see a coyote with a coffee cup sized hole on his shoulder blade, standing up trying to figure out if he is dead or not....shock.
We had this one stand I will never forget with a Strong cold front moving in FAST, while down in Baja, Barometer in the truck indicated pressure dropping FAST!. On one stand, we had 4 coyotes down, and we could still hear them yapping coming in, racing each other to get to the call, from different directions. We put down three more, and should have shot more, but one guy could not focus on the gun handling because of his dang cigar! I looked up and two coyotes that I had shot were trying to walk off. I had to hit them again, then ran out and gave them a heart stomp. Cigar smoking partner was using my 1100 with 3", #4 buck, and he was deadly with it if he could just stop spinning that cigar in his fingers and flicking ashes.
It is idiotic to think that you only shoot a coyote behind the shoulders unless you let a lot of them walk, trott, or run off. You hit coyotes all over the body, front shoulders and rear quarters require the most of a bullet along with rear quartering shots when they are running away.
So, since we were only allowed 50 rounds per gun, two gun limit on a Mexican gun permit, we learned to make our rounds count. We would test bullets using two methods, hanging a fresh dead coyote from a fence/tree, shoot it square on the shoulder at 30 yards, then again at 85 yards. If the bullet/load did not blow up and penetrated, then that bullet was worth loading and taking to Mexico.
I always wanted to try and shoot several phone books that were Duct taped together but never got around to it. The talking heads say that shooting dry paper is a great way to test a bullets ability to penetrate bone.
Current political thinking is that you should a poly tip bullet due to BC, or you are some kind of retard. I will buck the trend.
I know several people that use the 53g and 55g V max for coyotes, they never complain.
Last edited:
Sorry time difference and all!!, just to clarify yes it was kangaroo. Seems I was mistaken, I was under the impression that Hornady VMax was the equivalent polymer tipped projectile to a Nosler BT and from the responses that doesn’t seem the case my apologies, I don’t have a MV as I ceased using after the first night, I’m a commercial shooter so all shots have to be head shot for the carcass to used in human consumption and comply with regulations. For my regular load I’m using a howa with a 1in8 twist and with the nosler 55gn BT and 27.4 BM2 and at 200 yards they are still eye poppers. Just couldn’t understand why even on small Roos (fox head) and at 100yards the VMax would blow a tennis ball size crater that was less then 1/4 inch deep and just maim not kill. So not something you want to happen when your trying to harvest 40-50 carcasses on a good night! Seems I was mistaken that they would rival a nosler BT… just wish I could get my usual supply of nosler but seems everyone is in the same boat with shortages
Coyotefurharvester
Silver $$ Contributor
Twist rate plays into bullet performance when striking a surface, I run 1/12 or 1/14 , less rpm. They ship them to burger chains in the U.S.,lol.
Just from my experience and after a conversation with a Hornady Ballistic Tech, 1:8 twist, depending on muzzle velocity, is too fast of a twist rate for the 53gr V-Max.
My velocity on my loads is 3250fps.
Hornady's recommendation for that velocity was 1:10 or 1:12.
You may simply be spinning the bullet too fast and that will affect penetration.
As I said earlier, I have loaded and shot 1000's of the 53gr V-Max bullets and have taken many, many coyotes and other like sized animals with no penetration issues.
Again....This is just from my experience. My barrel is a custom cut 1:11 twist.
Pheasanthunter
Gold $$ Contributor
Smoking while calling that seems strange
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.