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Hornady ELD-Ms, gone and good riddance!!!

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Brief over view, not a detailed report by and means.
6.5mm ELD-M 147g
6.5mm ELD-M 140g
7mm ELD-M 180g
x3 qualified Engineers that are also qualified distance shooters, thats enough of that for now.
All three types of bullets, multiple lot numbers, 284 cartridge, 6.5-284, all three bullets failed in both cartridges in three different rifles, Brux and Bartlein barrels after the first or second F class target once the rifle started warmng up. A spotter watched the jackets frag off at about 300yds and about 700yds on different days.
Extremely accurate bullets in small doses, world class accurate, unless you use them in matches and get the barrel up to typical match temps.
For a few shots, great chioce on all counts.
For matches be prepared for 0 scores part way into he match. Way old news its happened to a good few of us now in various matches.
We tried to work with the amateur club at Hornady, pointless, deny all accusations, make counter accusations, admit to nothing.
Its a mass marketing pedestrian grade commoner product.
They lie and twist the facts and think because they say it we need to go for it like most of there normal customer interface. This is well known product failure in the serious match arenas, at the national level. My direct experience is
F class and long bench. As well as the other two fellows that had the same problems and were part of the investigation and direct findings. When one of the guys found a jacket at about the 300yd burm, kinda told all. Hormady would not and did not ever address the fragged jacket we did send them , but they did ask for it.
Bergers, Lapuas, Sieeras, all in the same rifles and barrels loaded them same et al, no issues.
How’s the comparison between the straight BR and BRA coming along??? REALLY looking forward to seeing it :)
 
Sorry, it’s going to take a lot more than the flimsy and undocumented explanation above to make me forget the reputation and contributions the Hornady family has made to the hunting and shooting sports for almost 70 years!!

Signed: Pedestrian Grade Commoner.
I think I have read all the threads talking about problems with ELD-M’s and it seems to me there are a lot more people stating they are not having problems compared to those that are. This fact seems to point to a problem with certain lots or are more specific to the equipment or actions of those reporting problems.

It’s a shame this is such an elusive conclusion. Of course in the internet age it is so much more selfishly rewarding to trash a reputable company than to conduct ourselves in an honorable fashion.

But are there threads about any other match bullets blowing up? It’s not common. I hope I’m not one to be considered “unfair” to Hornady by joining with sharing my own very “iffy” experience with the ELD-M. I don’t know that Hornady intended the 180 to be used in an RSaum running hot in the first place, as far as my own experience is concerned. I blame myself more than Hornady, but these bullets did blow up with more frequency and less provocation than their competitors, and I spent the energy and time last winter to say that with no equivocation. I buy quite a lot from them and don’t have to be pleased with every product by a company to appreciate it as a whole.

Area51 was at least as vocal about “hear no evil see no evil” customer service as the bullets. That’s frustrating, isn’t it? Consider that Berger on the other hand is deliberately slow to release the 195 H as a “match” bullet, and they say why. That means shoot at your own risk, and I appreciate that.
 
We'll Alex I hate to bust your bubble they may not be up to your standards but Steve Sabo won 1000yd shooter of the year an broke a 10 match heavy gun score agg in 2011 shooting those crappie hornady a-max bullets.
My bubbles ok. I shot a lot of the 140 Amax in the 260ai before going to a dasher. That was before the amp jacket. The amp jacket ended my love affair with that bullet. Guys are shooting way smaller now then I was back then anyways.
 
Ive been away from shooting this year, unfortunately life got in the way. So is the eld a different jacket than the amax? I was under the impression it was just a new tip.
 
How’s the comparison between the straight BR and BRA coming along??? REALLY looking forward to seeing it :)
:p
As much as i would like to share, i do care about not lifting the rock any higher more. Upsetting the status quo is not my intention or goal. The main stream pedestrian consumers do not want better information, they just want some, simple as that, this thread is a great example of many things that are used to control the growing populations of this tiny planet moving forward. Cutting edge reality and true and accurate data is not what runs this forum, which is certainly ok by any metrics. The masses do need a place to feel at home and believe they are involved and significant.
Its all debatable round and round, they go, but its all an exercise in venting and futility.
The private forums are where the cutting edge info is these days, and that where these sorts of things have merit.For the rest, well back into your matrix world, is safer and easier there.
What a great lesson in algorithm generating data!
That is the end game if its public folks.

  • you+can't+handle+the+truth.jpg
 
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I think I have read all the threads talking about problems with ELD-M’s and it seems to me there are a lot more people stating they are not having problems compared to those that are. This fact seems to point to a problem with certain lots or are more specific to the equipment or actions of those reporting problems.

It’s a shame this is such an elusive conclusion. Of course in the internet age it is so much more selfishly rewarding to trash a reputable company than to conduct ourselves in an honorable fashion.
A lot more Ford pintos did not blow up than those that did.
People who like a product and a company tend to blame the environment.
The people who have had the issues point at the product and the company. It seems to me that there is enough on the one side to say the problem is present and it exists.
If I had bullets blowing up, I think I'd hang on to them and give them a 2nd chance in a different barrel. Then again, if I was in a match and a few shots could not be accounted for, I may not be so forgiving, we're all different in that aspect.
Once a persons tolerance level has been pushed so far, just where is the line drawn as to what is considered to be an honorable fashion?
 
These bullet issues are either a simple bump in the road or a sink hole in the road. For me, a bump but for many on this thread, they are a major sink hole. Everyone has a different tolerance for this issue. Like Milo's Pinto remark, I had a Ford Super duty back in 2001 that had a tranny issue. After researching the issue, tons of customers had the same issues which resulted in 2500.00 in tranny work when just out of warranty. Ford knew of the issue but never recalled that problem. 99% of the guys didn't bail on Ford Super duty's, they just bitched alot. I'm one of them. This issue is exactly the same. This happens in every companies products all over this country. Some guys will bail off the Hornady truck and some will stick it out. I'll always use them for my needs simply because the issue of losing a jacket in my uses won't be a tragedy. Won't result in losing points in a match. I just won't hear the steel plate ring or see a hole in paper on my ranges. If this issue gets huge, Hornady will address it.
 
Better to sit on the rock, be happy , don't worry. Its all good. Its going to be ok. Little vs big. Truth vs public lies and defamation tactics.
Dont lift the rock.
  • safety-first-sign-s-2500.png
 
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A lot more Ford pintos did not blow up than those that did.
People who like a product and a company tend to blame the environment.
The people who have had the issues point at the product and the company. It seems to me that there is enough on the one side to say the problem is present and it exists.
If I had bullets blowing up, I think I'd hang on to them and give them a 2nd chance in a different barrel. Then again, if I was in a match and a few shots could not be accounted for, I may not be so forgiving, we're all different in that aspect.
Once a persons tolerance level has been pushed so far, just where is the line drawn as to what is considered to be an honorable fashion?
You might want to reconsider your Pinto analogy since that MYTH was debunked long ago. You might want to start with the
1991 study in Rutgers Law Review by Gary Schwartz.

As for a persons “tolerance level,” I just don’t consider the facts and circumstances in this controversy worthy of the blanket indictment of Hornady as a company!!
 
I don't use the suspect bullets so don't know if there is a disclaimer on the box similar to the ones stating required twist rates. If not, why couldn't they put one on about about speeds and/or twist rate limitations? Seems that would be the common sense thing to do. Having said that, in today's hyper competitive world, ignoring or downplaying an issue with a consumer product is a recipe for losing market share or going bust. GM anyone? Remington? NASCAR?

 
You might want to reconsider your Pinto analogy since that MYTH was debunked long ago. You might want to start with the
1991 study in Rutgers Law Review by Gary Schwartz.

As for a persons “tolerance level,” I just don’t consider the facts and circumstances in this controversy worthy of the blanket indictment of Hornady as a company!!
First, I made a simple comparison, I could care less if myth or fact, I have never owned a Ford product.
Not sure why I am in this post, I do not shoot hornady products today, most likely will not either.
When I see the name hornady, I instinctively roll back 5 1/2 yrs to the period after Sandy Hook, you know, the time they decided to abandon the reloading industry, to make LEVERevolution® ammo, I'm sure 223 and pistol ammo was in high production too.
When other companies were doing what they could to fuel the shortage, guess who took a break? Yeah. Other companies fought with additional shifts, weighing whether adding machinery or replacing older equipment was going to be a wise solution.
I have little use for Nosler either, don't dislike them, just do not use their products. But Nosler stood tall in that period, producing what they could w/o a price increase for a solid year and a half to 2 yrs.
I've more or less forgot or never cared about the ford pinto, but this, I will never forget, and I vote with my pocketbook.
 
:p
As much as i would like to share, i do care about not lifting the rock any higher more. Upsetting the status quo is not my intention or goal. The main stream pedestrian consumers do not want better information, they just want some, simple as that, this thread is a great example of many things that are used to control the growing populations of this tiny planet moving forward. Cutting edge reality and true and accurate data is not what runs this forum, which is certainly ok by any metrics. The masses do need a place to feel at home and believe they are involved and significant.
Its all debatable round and round, they go, but its all an exercise in venting and futility.
The private forums are where the cutting edge info is these days, and that where these sorts of things have merit.For the rest, well back into your matrix world, is safer and easier there.
What a great lesson in algorithm generating data!
That is the end game if its public folks.

  • you+can't+handle+the+truth.jpg

Hornady, in my opinion, should actually be thankful for these constructive discussions, and the free research. After all, they probably concluded their own design testing, preproduction, they weren’t going to revisit anything except consistency, and they just didn’t know. It’s not on purpose. Whatever jacket problem they have saved the no money.
 
First, I made a simple comparison, I could care less if myth or fact, I have never owned a Ford product.
Not sure why I am in this post, I do not shoot hornady products today, most likely will not either.
When I see the name hornady, I instinctively roll back 5 1/2 yrs to the period after Sandy Hook, you know, the time they decided to abandon the reloading industry, to make LEVERevolution® ammo, I'm sure 223 and pistol ammo was in high production too.
When other companies were doing what they could to fuel the shortage, guess who took a break? Yeah. Other companies fought with additional shifts, weighing whether adding machinery or replacing older equipment was going to be a wise solution.
I have little use for Nosler either, don't dislike them, just do not use their products. But Nosler stood tall in that period, producing what they could w/o a price increase for a solid year and a half to 2 yrs.
I've more or less forgot or never cared about the ford pinto, but this, I will never forget, and I vote with my pocketbook.
First, I made a simple comparison, I could care less if myth or fact, I have never owned a Ford product.
Not sure why I am in this post, I do not shoot hornady products today, most likely will not either.
When I see the name hornady, I instinctively roll back 5 1/2 yrs to the period after Sandy Hook, you know, the time they decided to abandon the reloading industry, to make LEVERevolution® ammo, I'm sure 223 and pistol ammo was in high production too.
When other companies were doing what they could to fuel the shortage, guess who took a break? Yeah. Other companies fought with additional shifts, weighing whether adding machinery or replacing older equipment was going to be a wise solution.
I have little use for Nosler either, don't dislike them, just do not use their products. But Nosler stood tall in that period, producing what they could w/o a price increase for a solid year and a half to 2 yrs.
I've more or less forgot or never cared about the ford pinto, but this, I will never forget, and I vote with my pocketbook.

Thanks for clarifying that. Not sure how you make a comparison between two things when one is demonstrably false, but you state you “forgot” but “never forget” so I guess anything is possible.

The rest of your post seems to buttress the fact that you “could care less if” something is “myth or fact.” As a matter of fact it seems the only things you don’t forget are myths!

https://www.offthegridnews.com/self...production-of-bullets-due-to-customer-demand/
 
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Could the problem be the barrel or twist rateo_O

Of course those do matter. Here’s the story guys, the quick - down and dirty version. Take it for what it’s worth to you, it’s my personal observation.

I have about 25,000 7mm match grade bullets on hand from major makers across lots, so trust me on sample size.

Extrapolate as you wish. If you shoot 180 grain bullets at 3,000 FPS through an 8 twist 5R, - and no one is suggesting you do but it’s very enlightening - you can expect these results, when the barrel gets nice and hot.

80 degrees or hotter, you may blow a Hornady every other 15 shot string. You will probably blow 2 in a 25 shot string of record with sighters. They will blow at midrange. Ergo I stopped as it only gets hotter than this in Texas.

Lapua 80 Degrees, you will probably be fine regardless of string size, under a cover, at least at midrange.

Berger - fine.

————-

90 degrees plus in sun or even under cover:

Don’t even try Hornady.

Lapua will probably survive midrange, but will not survive “every” match at 1,000 assuming you slow pace. You may lose 1 in 200 going slow. Shoot really fast and expect to lose up to 1 in 50.

Berger, 1 down in 1,000 shot, happened on hot day but under cover.

There it is.
 
Ive been away from shooting this year, unfortunately life got in the way. So is the eld a different jacket than the amax? I was under the impression it was just a new tip.

From what I have gathered its a new bullet. Not just the tip. However I havent bisected one to verify that, just reading on the web.
 
I've since upgraded to a 2014 F 250 w/6.7 international. Sure close to the 7.3 but with a much better tranny. Sorry for the automotive disruption. Suppose there's a better place for this discussion. I'll get focused.
don't worry,I lose my mind all the time,,someone lost theirs when they started this thread,,,:confused:
 
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