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Horizontal vs. Vertical

Boisblancboy

Ok guys I would like to hear your opinions. I have been testing loads for my new gun and have been shooting out to 400 yards, its the farthest I can at my range currently.

I havent found a clear winner with which load I am going to stick with yet, but Im have been happy with my vertical spread. Which is consistently 1 MOA and under.

Now my horizontal spread has been close to a MOA, but a little over, which without a doubt is me. Especially today cause there was NO wind.

So I know I need more trigger time without a doubt.

My question is, being this is load testing, how much should I worry about the Horizontal vs. vertical?
 
I try to develop my load that has the least amount of vertical at long range as possible. The horizontal will come with training. If you can limit the amount of vertical and it is consistent, you the shooter can take the time to work out the fundamentals of keeping the horizontal element out of the group.
 
What kind of gun are we talking about? If you have 1 moa of vertical and 1 moa of horizontal that is a round group. If I am tuning and get by best round group and I'm not happy with it, I would try different components like bullets or powder. At long range I dont pay as much to horizontal with my tuning.
 
Try seating depth adjustments now in .003 increments. Do a search on the Texas Warehouse Experiment. Awesome reading on accuracy
 
How did you determine that there was no wind? Also, how does it group at 100? How is the rifle supported? What is the trigger pull weight?
 
Vertical is normally adjusted with speed powder primers bags rest bedding pressure in the top of the stock with thumb.I try to total get rid of any vertical. then deal with the other.I normally test at 100 and 200 yd if it don't shoot their longer wont fix it. Good Shooting Larry
 
I have a .308 Elesio Tube gun.

I havent shot groups at 100, since im testing for 1k shooting.

The rifle is on a bi-pod and on a rear bag.

Trigger pull is 8 oz.

Shooting 230 gr bergers.

My groups are not round, im a 1moa and under for vertical, and 1 moa and bigger for horizontal.

Ok, I guess there could have been 1-2 mph of wind.
 
Sounds like you have a capable gun. Keep tuning. You should be able to get your vertical down significantly. Like Savagedasher said, try and eliminate it. I would want less than an inch of vertical at 400. Shoot over flags. Head winds or tail winds will give you vertical.
 
zfastmalibu said:
Sounds like you have a capable gun. Keep tuning. You should be able to get your vertical down significantly. Like Savagedasher said, try and eliminate it. I would want less than an inch of vertical at 400. Shoot over flags. Head winds or tail winds will give you vertical.
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe with more trigger time I should be able to shrink both vertical and horizontal.

Im still working with my loads and the have closed a bunch from the start of testing.

But my original question being should i be worried as much with Horizontal as my vertical?? Im just trying to focus on the gun I guess right now.
 
I am more concerned with the vertical when load testing. To the point that I ignore the horizontal.
I shoot F-Open.
 
Unless I can validate the total absence of wind at every point along the bullet's path, I don't typically factor in the horizontal spread, as long as it's not radical. But I do keep in mind that canting the rifle, even by only one degree, can contribute to both vertical and horizontal issues - especially at longer distances. When these kinds of problems occur I take it all back to 100 yards and work on it at that distance until I've resolved the issue(s).
For vertical stringing, I look first at my consistency in shoulder pressure, cheek weld, trigger pull, whether I sit with both knees forward, feet spread, and all other aspects of my "hold" at the bench. It doesn't take much of a change, especially at longer range, for those elements to have a dramatic effect on where the bullet contacts the target.
Although I agree that load variations can be an issue in analyzing problems with vertical stringing, I'm very careful about consistency in loads to make sure seating depth, neck tension, powder weight etc. are correct but I still take a few minutes to look at my equipment to make sure it's properly adjusted and clean when I discover a vertical stringing problem if for no better purpose than to eliminate that probability and I double check to make sure my primers and their pockets are properly conditioned.
I've found that allowing the rifle to rest at an angle on the sand bags, with the muzzle being above or below the centerline of the barrel when referenced to a level horizontal plane I get a little bit of vertical stringing too. I suspect that's caused by the butt of the rifle contacting my shoulder at an angle which affects how the gun's recoil influences the bullet's path.
 
Without wind flags and knowing what different wind directions are doing to your bullet you will not be able to eliminate horizontal or vertical.You will be wasting components and barrel life without the most important part of the puzzle,(WIND FLAGS)!!! Unless you are shooting in a tunnel.
 
You have a good point. I understand the importance of a wind flag, but I just don't use them when load testing. All my load testing is done at 100 yards.
 
I agree with D Bailey. I use the vertical mostly when doing my load development. I also think the group must be repeatable to be valid.

James Crofts
 
Boisblancboy said:
zfastmalibu said:
Sounds like you have a capable gun. Keep tuning. You should be able to get your vertical down significantly. Like Savagedasher said, try and eliminate it. I would want less than an inch of vertical at 400. Shoot over flags. Head winds or tail winds will give you vertical.
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe with more trigger time I should be able to shrink both vertical and horizontal.

Im still working with my loads and the have closed a bunch from the start of testing.

But my original question being should i be worried as much with Horizontal as my vertical?? Im just trying to focus on the gun I guess right now.
Click to expand...

I focus only on my vertical at long range during load testing.
 
halfmoanut said:
Without wind flags and knowing what different wind directions are doing to your bullet you will not be able to eliminate horizontal or vertical.You will be wasting components and barrel life without the most important part of the puzzle,(WIND FLAGS)!!! Unless you are shooting in a tunnel.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY ! These LR shooters should even be more concerned than PT. Blank shooters about barrel life, some LR chamberings are lucky to stay competitive beyond 800 rounds.
 
Boisblancboy,

I start at 100yds find he best load there. I then take the best loads to 200yds. I like to see 0.400" or better, also you will need a velocity ES of 20 or less . That works for me, shooting 600 and 1000yds benchrest.

A very slight wind will open groups. Get some survey ribbon and tie it to a small rod. When I start tuning a load, I shoot 3 shot groups, then I go to 5 shot groups, to agg my final load.

Mark Schronce
 
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