Highly Accurate Powder Scale
- Thread starter treillw
- Start date
carlsbad
Lions don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
I use a Sartorius BA110. This is a $3000 laboratory scale that measures to .001 grain. However, it is a discontinued model, perhaps 10 years ago. So they sell cheap on ebay as they are retired from laboratories. parts and service would be prohibitive but if you can get them for $200, call them disposable. Sometimes one with broken glass will go real cheap and broken glass can be easily replace with lexan.
YOU should tell what distance you shoot , and why you feel a scale that will weight 1 gn. of powder is necessary.
Shooting at 600 yds and beyond the shooters abilities on all aspects of long range shooting will have a much greater effect on accuracy that 1 grain one of powder deviation from load to load.
This BS about scales that will weight 1 grain of powder comes up about every 6 weeks or so. I would suggest making one of them a "sticky " or a topic for the "bulletin Board " BUT as everyone will notice the classifieds,members are not even able to put an accurate description and can't muster enough energy to list in the title WTB, WTS, WTT. So listing anything as a "topic" would be a waste of time because reading or doing a search must be beyond their capabilities, or they are just lazy
There is only one Autotrickler they sell for around $800. I've got one and love it but if I were you I'd get a chargemaster and if you decide later get a autotrickler
Ned Ludd
Silver $$ Contributor
The Sartorius Entris 64-1S is a fantastic analytical balance and would do everything you want and more. However, the price tag is around $1200.00. I was fortunate enough to obtain a Mettler Toledo analytical balance several years ago that is probably at least a couple rungs up the ladder from the Sartorius equivalent of the Entris 64 at that time. If it ever goes out, I would buy the Entris as a replacement without hesitation. My second choice would likely be the A&D FX-120i.
When it comes to buying an analytical balance, you generally get what you pay for. Good magnetic force restoration balances do not come cheap. It is probably worth thinking about your typical ES/SD values with whatever system you're currently using to weigh powder, and come up with figures that are "acceptable" to you. For example, many shooters would consider anything under 10 fps for 5 shots with a .308 Win load to be acceptable. That typically would mean the ES value would be less than 20 fps RES for 20 shots. Compare that value to where you are now, and you will have some idea of how far you need to go.
Bear in mind that if you're currently weighing powder to, let's say, +/- 0.1 gr, and you improve the precision to +/- 0.02 gr, the ES/SD will not automatically shrink to 1/50th the current value. Buying a balance capable of weighing powder to +/- 1 kernel (or less) will usually mean that charge weight variance will no longer be the limiting source of error in terms of ES/SD. Other factors such as primer choice, powder choice, uniform neck tension, etc., are ALL on the list of items that cause velocity variance. Buying a really expensive balance simply means you can remove that ONE factor from the list. If charge weight variance was previously a limiting source of error in velocity variance, whatever the next limiting factor in the reloading process happens to be will then be the new limiting factor. If charge weight variance was previously NOT the limiting source of error in velocity variance, the new expensive balance won't make any difference.
Another way of thinking about this is that in theory (on paper), a single kernel of powder in a medium-sized cartridge might be worth at the very most 1 to 2 fps velocity. With an ES value around 10 fps, that means (in theory) that your charge weight could vary by as much as 3 to 5 kernels before your ES would noticeably increase. What that really tells you is that the 10 fps ES values was largely caused by something OTHER than charge weight variance. Buying an expensive balance cannot make that any better.
My point is that having some idea of the velocity variance you're willing to accept will give you some idea of the maximum (theoretical) charge weight variance you need to have. Then you find the weighing system that will fulfill those criteria. In other words, don't spend a lot of money on an expensive balance if it's not going to markedly improve the loads you develop.
When it comes to buying an analytical balance, you generally get what you pay for. Good magnetic force restoration balances do not come cheap. It is probably worth thinking about your typical ES/SD values with whatever system you're currently using to weigh powder, and come up with figures that are "acceptable" to you. For example, many shooters would consider anything under 10 fps for 5 shots with a .308 Win load to be acceptable. That typically would mean the ES value would be less than 20 fps RES for 20 shots. Compare that value to where you are now, and you will have some idea of how far you need to go.
Bear in mind that if you're currently weighing powder to, let's say, +/- 0.1 gr, and you improve the precision to +/- 0.02 gr, the ES/SD will not automatically shrink to 1/50th the current value. Buying a balance capable of weighing powder to +/- 1 kernel (or less) will usually mean that charge weight variance will no longer be the limiting source of error in terms of ES/SD. Other factors such as primer choice, powder choice, uniform neck tension, etc., are ALL on the list of items that cause velocity variance. Buying a really expensive balance simply means you can remove that ONE factor from the list. If charge weight variance was previously a limiting source of error in velocity variance, whatever the next limiting factor in the reloading process happens to be will then be the new limiting factor. If charge weight variance was previously NOT the limiting source of error in velocity variance, the new expensive balance won't make any difference.
Another way of thinking about this is that in theory (on paper), a single kernel of powder in a medium-sized cartridge might be worth at the very most 1 to 2 fps velocity. With an ES value around 10 fps, that means (in theory) that your charge weight could vary by as much as 3 to 5 kernels before your ES would noticeably increase. What that really tells you is that the 10 fps ES values was largely caused by something OTHER than charge weight variance. Buying an expensive balance cannot make that any better.
My point is that having some idea of the velocity variance you're willing to accept will give you some idea of the maximum (theoretical) charge weight variance you need to have. Then you find the weighing system that will fulfill those criteria. In other words, don't spend a lot of money on an expensive balance if it's not going to markedly improve the loads you develop.
RCBS
After I throw a charge I automatically trickle up . Cost $20.
Some times I think people either have to much money and need to figure out ways to spend it, or their just plain lazy and need some gadget to do it for them.
Kiss method.
Keep
It
Simple
Sally
Since most stick powder kernels weigh 0.02g, why would you need finer resolution? Are we chopping kernels into quarters? Is anyone doing ladder test in 0.02g charge weight increments?
And if I recall what my A&D 120 manual says, changing to grams will provide that finer resolution as long as you’re willing to do the conversion
And if I recall what my A&D 120 manual says, changing to grams will provide that finer resolution as long as you’re willing to do the conversion
nmkid
Gold $$ Contributor
On a lark I ordered the Hornady battery powered trickler. Right off hand, I don't remember but it was very inexpensive. Granted it's not an auto trickler but, it works just fine and it has 3 speeds. Works fine for my needs.
Actually you are. Instead of responding here you should have taken it to PM as requested.
So if it's not about the post count might I suggest deleting to clean the thread back up.
At that time this will also disappear.
I shoot long range BR so powder charge is critical. I have a Sartorius Entris 128 and Adam’s Auto throw and Auto tricker with all the Area 419 upgrades. It lets me relatively quickly load highly precise rounds.
When I bought my setup last year I would have been happy with the A&F FXI 120 with the Auto throw and trickler but I could not find one.
My Sartorius weighs to .001 grains, which is needlessly precise even for LR BR. I usually ignore the last digit. However I can definitely say that no one on this thread has been correct about the weight of a Varget kernel. They actually weigh between about .018 and .024.
If I were buying again I would get the whole A&D FXI 120 with Auto throw, trickled, and upgrades for $1450ish from Area 419
When I bought my setup last year I would have been happy with the A&F FXI 120 with the Auto throw and trickler but I could not find one.
My Sartorius weighs to .001 grains, which is needlessly precise even for LR BR. I usually ignore the last digit. However I can definitely say that no one on this thread has been correct about the weight of a Varget kernel. They actually weigh between about .018 and .024.
If I were buying again I would get the whole A&D FXI 120 with Auto throw, trickled, and upgrades for $1450ish from Area 419
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The Dandy is a great unit. I was lucky to find a nearly new unit on eBay for $75.00.
Danny
I use the Sartorius CP64 and a Dandy Trickler. Both work exceptionally well together. They are not tied digitally, but it doesn't take much time at all to drop the last of the powder.
There is a thread here where they are helping you build your own auto trickler for as little as $60. I am contemplating using that for the future and would use my Dandy, but don't know.
The Area 419 trickler alone for the AND is $229 and $269 for the Sartorius. The kits with drop and trickler are $399 (AND) and $439 (Sartorius) respectfully. Not a huge impact when you consider what we spend on our sport.
I picked my first Sartorius up at a lab auction. I generally attend these autions to buy and sell but I had been wanting one analytical lab scale for a while and not willing to spend $500 plus. This came without the shield but that was OK as it had recently been serviced and certified, I then found another Sartorius on Ebay from a medical equipment seller and got it for $220 plus S&H. Sold the other unit to a member here and am very happy with mine.
My unit if it were still available and I had purchased it brand new would have cost me close to $3000. Very happy with its performance. I also like the sliding doors so I don't have to remove glass to use. May add the auto trickler at some point in the future but for now I am happy.
Two things that I have added to my scale that I think have made a huge difference is first an APU (CyberPower CP850PFCLCD) to correct the voltage going to the unit and to provide protection from surges, brown outs and other line issues. The second I have a used lab anti static mat under the scale to ensure that I don't build up any static charges. It has a ground on it and uses a monitor that lets me know if a static charge is building (SCS 724). This thing is great. Picked the monitor and mat up at that lab auction.
There is a thread here where they are helping you build your own auto trickler for as little as $60. I am contemplating using that for the future and would use my Dandy, but don't know.
The Area 419 trickler alone for the AND is $229 and $269 for the Sartorius. The kits with drop and trickler are $399 (AND) and $439 (Sartorius) respectfully. Not a huge impact when you consider what we spend on our sport.
I picked my first Sartorius up at a lab auction. I generally attend these autions to buy and sell but I had been wanting one analytical lab scale for a while and not willing to spend $500 plus. This came without the shield but that was OK as it had recently been serviced and certified, I then found another Sartorius on Ebay from a medical equipment seller and got it for $220 plus S&H. Sold the other unit to a member here and am very happy with mine.
My unit if it were still available and I had purchased it brand new would have cost me close to $3000. Very happy with its performance. I also like the sliding doors so I don't have to remove glass to use. May add the auto trickler at some point in the future but for now I am happy.
Two things that I have added to my scale that I think have made a huge difference is first an APU (CyberPower CP850PFCLCD) to correct the voltage going to the unit and to provide protection from surges, brown outs and other line issues. The second I have a used lab anti static mat under the scale to ensure that I don't build up any static charges. It has a ground on it and uses a monitor that lets me know if a static charge is building (SCS 724). This thing is great. Picked the monitor and mat up at that lab auction.
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