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help with full adjustment for optic

Looking for a step by step account of zeroing scope and getting all elevation.
If Khales ships scope with turrets set at middle of elevation range how do I know or how do I adjust so I am at bottom of elevation range in order to have all 25.5 mil of elevation ?


Cold-Shot-Adjustable-Scope-Base.jpg


is this the answer?
 
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25 mils is total vertical adjustment on scope which is set by factory at middle of elevation so your realy only getting half of vertical adjustment if zeroed on a flat base . so my question is how do I know how much angel is required on scope base 20 MOA 30 MOA for example to use all turret adjustment .
This is regarding ELR, which I call anything past 1500 yrds
 
With the scope set in the middle of its elevation travel, you will have 12.5 mil up and 12.5 mil down travel. To counter the effect of gravity on the bullet's trajectory and zero the rifle at some distance, you dial the elevation turret up, effectively moving the scope reticle down (opposite direction). As you raise the rifle higher to bring the reticle on target, you're pointing the barrel upward. The key here is that at "zero", the scope axis is essentially parallel to the barrel, so a bullet will drop below the line of sight very quickly. So it's common to think of the total scope elevation travel by halves: upward travel and downward travel. You want an angled base to help you get back some of the scope's downward elevation travel, meaning the bottom half of its total travel range.

That means a base with up 12.5 mil cant will allow you to "regain" the downward elevation travel. One mil is an equivalent angle to approximately 3.44 MOA, so that means you could theoretically use a base with up to (12.5 mil x 3.44 MOA/mil) = 43 MOA total, to regain the bottom half of your elevation travel. In reality, these things don't always work put exactly as they might calculate out on paper. Nonetheless, it should be be fairly close in practice.

The concern with using a scope base with a significant amount of cant is that you may lose the ability to zero at closer range. For example, I have a number of scopes that theoretically should all be able to zero at 100 yd with a 20 MOA base. In fact, all do except one. For shooting F-TR at 1000 yd, using a 20 MOA base means that the scope erector is not at the extreme end of its elevation travel range, and the optics will therefore be slightly better. Presumably, you're wanting a canted base for similar reasons, i.e. long range shooting. The bottom line is that you can use a base with almost whatever total amount of cant you wish, or at least whatever you can buy. However, once you go past the 12.5 mil (43 MOA) downward travel of your scope, you will only be able to zero at minimum distances farther and farther away. So you could theoretically put a 50 MOA, or even 80 MOA base under the scope, but you might only be able to zero at a minimum distance of 300 yd, or 600 yd, or farther. However, the steeper the the cant of the base, the farther out the elevation travel you gain would allow the scope to zero within its elevation travel.

The real question is how much elevation travel will be useful to you? I guess if you knew you would only be shooting a rifle from 1000 yd to 3000 yd, you might go with a very highly canted base. This is a situation that ELR shooters sometimes find themselves in. Of course, they are using calibers that will reach out that far, and don't have any need to zero at close range. Your scope's total elevation travel will not change by putting a canted base under it. You are simply changing the angle of the scope with a canted base so as to put its total elevation travel within a range that is useful for your purposes and suitable for the specific setup its mounted on.

As another example, I have a very accurate .22 rimfire bolt rifle on which I mounted a NF 12-46x56 BR scope, which has 40 MOA total elevation travel. The scope base has zero MOA cant. If desired, I can zero this rifle at ranges from less than 10 yd, out to about 150 yd maximum. I sometimes participate in an online rimfire shooting competition where the targets are shot occasionally as far as 200 yd. With a zero cant base, I simply cannot dial the scope enough to hit 200 yd, so I have to use an aimpoint well above (> 2 ft.) the target I am actually trying to shoot. It is not optimal, but I don't use if for that purpose very often, so I have not been inclined to put a 20 MOA canted base on it. If I did, the farthest distance for which I could zero the scope would increase, but at the same time, the closest distance I could zero the scope would move farther out. Since I shoot that rifle by far the most often at distances of 50 to 100 yd, it is not in my best interest to put a canted base on it at this time. You're in a similar position. So as indicated above, somewhere arpund a 40 MOA base would get you most of your elevation travel back. Anything more than that and your minimum close range zero distance is going to go up as well. The other consideration might be how "steady" adjustable scope bases such as the one pictured actually are as compared to a fixed base. If they're not rock solid, it will be a problem. In contrast, a fixed base will obviously limit you to that specific cant (i.e. not adjustable).
 
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The Cold Shot bases are not the best. Losts of play and not repeatable. If you are looking for an adjustable base thats really good look at the ERA-TEC it has 0-70MOA and works well.
 
Looking for a step by step account of zeroing scope and getting all elevation.
If Khales ships scope with turrets set at middle of elevation range how do I know or how do I adjust so I am at bottom of elevation range in order to have all 25.5 mil of elevation ?


Cold-Shot-Adjustable-Scope-Base.jpg


is this the answer?
It would help alot to know what cartridge and bullet you are shooting. Do you need a hundred yard zero ? How far you want to shoot might help alittle also. Matt
 
A lot of newer actions come with a 20moa integral rail milled in the action, this at times creates an issue if you'd like more up dope.
This is what I would do, I would mount your Kahles on what you have, which by the way we do not know, zero your scope at your desired range, set the zero stop. Now, bypass that zero stop and figure just how many mils you have in downward travel. This number will tell you how much more cant you can get by with. IME, one loses some up dope zeroing a scope, so maybe you could add one mil to your number, maybe not either.
Sphur makes some awesome canted rings if they suit your fancy and price range, leaving your base alone.
No use buying 20 moa more in cant if you only have 4 mils down in travel, and the same principle going the other way.
EDIT: Kahles scopes other than the new 525i are not known for excessive internal adj.
 
With the scope set in the middle of its elevation travel, you will have 12.5 mil up and 12.5 mil down travel.
Yes, but the inner tube usually stops against the outer tube and the reticle stops moving before the mechanical limit is reached. Oft times the same for windage.

Seldom, if ever, do adjustment mechanical center put erector optics on main tube and optical center.
 
You can get more 'UP' with Burris Signature Zee rings, depending on the ring spacing ~20 moa.
The objective is to have the optical center of the scope near the distance of the target not always possible but move towards that anyway.
 
There is a lot of good advise here. I shoot out to 1800yds and this is how I set up my scope (cheaply) to get what you ask about. I use the Burris standard signature rings and the dove tail front base and the windage adjustable rear base as in the photos. When the inserts don't get me exactly where I want to be I use shims underneath the bases. Here is the steps that I use. 1. center the reticle manually horz & vert. 2. install scope in rings. 3. zero scope and rifle, use windage screws to get as close as possible to horizontal center. 4. run verticle turret down to the bottom. 5. fire a round at a 100yd target.
The bullet hole will tell how much up or down you need to move the scope. Using a ring spacing of 3.6" (from Burris) .001" shift (vert) in the rear scope ring or base moves the bullet 1" at 100yrds.
The Savage 1" scope has 30MOA of travel, I have 29.5 available.
The AR15 (I'm proud of this one) has a Vortex 6.5x20x44 PA and has 68 MOA of travel, I am 1.25" from the bottom (66.75 MOA available).
Hope this helps.

DSC01537A.jpg DSC01539A.jpg
 
The objective is to have the optical center of the scope near the distance of the target not always possible but move towards that anyway.
Do you mean the scope outer tube axis (its optical axis) point at the target while the barrel points above the target?
 
I mean if the target is 500 yards out the optical center should be near that. So if it takes a 10 moa adjustment to reach 500 yards then a 10 moa canted rail will bring the scope to a neutral position in its erector travel.
As stated cant get it all the time but should move towards it.

EG: One of my rifles takes 28 moa to reach 1000 yards with a 200 yards zero, I use a 20moa canted rail to bring the adjustment closer to the center of the erector range...thus optical center of the scope.
 
The OP has not weighed in since the first post. I've ran Kahles 624i's for the last 3 yrs, and now a 5-25i for almost 6 mos. He wants an ELR rig, and he will be cranking the turret like it was stolen, and returning to zero many times a day. There are so many advancements in modern optics I myself doubt it will matter one bit if his target range is in the optical center of the scope.
The Kahles most likely has a zero stop, and if he max's out his elevation, my only recommendation would be not to store the scope in the zero position, leave a couple revs up in it when you put it away.
 
I mean if the target is 500 yards out the optical center should be near that. So if it takes a 10 moa adjustment to reach 500 yards then a 10 moa canted rail will bring the scope to a neutral position in its erector travel.
As stated cant get it all the time but should move towards it.

EG: One of my rifles takes 28 moa to reach 1000 yards with a 200 yards zero, I use a 20moa canted rail to bring the adjustment closer to the center of the erector range...thus optical center of the scope.
Your idea is good to do. However...

I've checked several scopes for where their erector tube centered on their optical axis (center of eyepiece lens to center of objective lens straight through the center of the outer main tube) and none was with the windage and elevation knobs midpoint in their mechanical range. All were several MOA off. Retical movement typically stopped before up and right mechanical limits reached.

Looking for a step by step account of zeroing scope and getting all elevation. If Khales ships scope with turrets set at middle of elevation range how do I know or how do I adjust so I am at bottom of elevation range in order to have all 25.5 mil of elevation ?
Most scopes are shipped with W & E knobs set so erector tube in centered on scope optical axis. Few, if any, are then centered in the adjustment mechanical limit.

Use the mirror or 2 V block method to zero the erector tube on the scope's optical axis/center.
 
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The OP has not weighed in since the first post. I've ran Kahles 624i's for the last 3 yrs, and now a 5-25i for almost 6 mos. He wants an ELR rig, and he will be cranking the turret like it was stolen, and returning to zero many times a day. There are so many advancements in modern optics I myself doubt it will matter one bit if his target range is in the optical center of the scope.
The Kahles most likely has a zero stop, and if he max's out his elevation, my only recommendation would be not to store the scope in the zero position, leave a couple revs up in it when you put it away.
Ned answered my question exactly.
Whats left is to decide how to achieve another 20 MOA .Which will be an addition to a 20 MOA optic rail . Kelblys fabricat matched rings with 25 MOA as well as Seekins .
Sphur mounts ,Ivy adjustable base are other ways to go . For my taste I decided to spend the extra on a Joy Pod and pod bag .
For the curious ,
300 norma imp.Ryan pierce spec.
Cadex field comp chassis
Bix Andy tac sport pro 1# trigger
Custom Kelblys long action tactical .750 bolt .
Long range accuracy bipod as well as Seb. Joy Pod .
 
You can get more 'UP' with Burris Signature Zee rings, depending on the ring spacing ~20 moa.
The objective is to have the optical center of the scope near the distance of the target not always possible but move towards that anyway.
B
talked wirh some guys back from shot who said signature rings are good to go .
Looks like for price hard to beat
Thanks for direction
 

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