Help Save My Savage

[stevo597]

Hi there,
I've recently gotten into reloading. I shoot a Savage 11 fcns (synthetic, standard barrel, accutrigger) in 243 win. I love the gun it's so far my only hunting rifle but i cant get it shooting as accurately as i'd like. At 100yds, my best 5 shot group is about 2 inches and out to 3" from there. im hunting with the rifle and am hoping for 1" or better groups at 100yds. i've tried many combo's of 4064 and RL17 with once fired winchester/federal brass. neck-sizing or full-sizing, cci 200 or fed match primers and shooting 95gr Nos BT's and 90gr speer hot-cors to name a couple. weighing all my charges from 35gr up to 39.5gr. i've cleaned it with clp and sweets when changing components or trying different loads. my brass prep is trimming, primer pocket deburring and flash holes unified.


anyway i'm gonna sell it in the next month or so unless i can get some advice here. i hope i can get to the bottom of whatever's wrong with it-if anything at all :s

 

[pdog06]

-make sure the barrel and rear tang are fully free-floated.

-since it is a sporter barrel, space your shots out, letting it cool between them.

- dont know how you like the trigger, but some people just dont like the accutrigger, and it makes them uncomfortable while shooting for groups(me included). Could be a contributing factor.

-Is this a new "Accustock" model rifle. If so there is a certain sequence to tightening the action screws. If its not done in this fashion it can hurt accuracy. If so the info shoulda came with the gun, or you can find it in the tech section on Savages website(www.savagearms.com).

Make sure the gun is the issue, and not the rest setup, optics, etc. before you decide to sell it. You should have no problem getting moa out of it. Honestly, if you're shooting 2-3"+ with reloads then something aint right.


Also, if you decide to sell it make sure to do the right thing and let the buyer know the troubles you are having with it.( I just sold another member a gun with some action trouble that I did not know about because I never used the action while in my possession. I feel absolutely horrible about it and have offered to buy it back, but we are currently working together to get the problem resolved(which might be sending it to Savage) and hopefully it gets resolved. If not I will be giving him his money back or replacing the action. Had I been aware of the problem beforehand it woulda never been for sale.)(The guy I bought the action off of failed/neglected to tell me about this problem, and aint answering my emails.)

Hope you figure out the issue you are having.

 

[tunered]

Can you explain your setup, rest, scope, and does it have an AO on the scope. ed

 

[fullersson]

You need to know the twist rate of your barrel. If it is a slow twist barrel then you will have to shoot a light bullet. I have an 8 twist barrel so I shoot the heavier bullets like 105, 108, or 115. Good shooting, Brian.

 

[zullo74]

anyway i'm gonna sell it in the next month or so unless i can get some advice here.

Sounds like a threat to me! :-*

 

[Travelor]

Savages are really tempermental when it comoes to the action screw torque. This may help and if so it is a simple fix.

http://savageaccuracy.com/2010/02/01/how-i-tune-a-savage-receiver/

and

http://bentongunclub.org/smf/index.php?topic=324.0
George

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

My daughter's Savage 243 bbl was at best just over 1" at 100 yds for 5 shots. I put quite a bit of components down it trying to find a better load and never did. I ended up pulling the barrel and ordering a custom 257 Roberts bbl for it.

The "one" load that shot best for me was the 80 gr Speer "hot core" bullet, loaded over IMR 4350 and Fed match primers.

That factory bbl was rough inside. I mean REALLY rough. Very bad tooling marks all the way down the bore from when the barrel was drilled. I know some factory bbls are better than others, but this was the worst barrel I've ever looked down. I've had other factory Savage barrels that were much better made. This one would copper up very fast and then accuracy would go to you-know-where. It would take 3 separate sessions with foaming cleaner to get it clean again, then accuracy would come back to "normal".

Look very carefully at your cleaning process, and try to determine if you're really getting all the copper and carbon out. Maybe it's just fouled still?

 

[stevo597]

Thank you for the links i'll give tuning it a try, and no its one of the old bendy stocks, when i first got it, i carved out parts of the barrel channel to help keep the barrel from being touched, i have since bedded the stock using devcon(free floated tang/barrel and bedded the recoil lug).

tunered, my setup is an MTM predator rest on a cement pad, bushnell 3200 3-9x40 w/o AO. i bought it from my friend's dad, he went out and got a fancy leupy but he used to shoot very sub moa groups with it on his rem vls 308 so i suspect its a good scope. and fullersson, my barrel twist is 1:9.25".

Slim, when I clean with sweets 7.62, i run patches and nylon brush through until i get no more blue coloring. to be honest tho, I can see perpendicular tooling marks in the lands at the muzzle after i clean it. Not too sure whether that's good or not aha

And don't be afraid buyer market, i'm looking to sell it just to someone who wants to bag a deer each year, not to anyone hoping for steller accuracy.

Also, when i first started handloading, i got decent accuracy with mixed brass brands, full sizing, 35 gr of 4064 and 95 gr Nos BT's and cci 200 primers. from there i increased powder to get at least factory velocity and accuracy stated going out the window. I have since tried to duplicate that load (my starting load) and got equally terrible accuracy.

 

[Kenny474]

Try Tubb's Final Finish fire lapping system. I have had very good results with it myself. It will help smooth out all the tool marks and greatly improve accuracy in most cases. I have used it in 3 different rifles, and all have benefited. (all were factory barrels)

And please don't take this the wrong way, but how experienced are you in regards to bedding a stock? If done improperly it can hurt accuracy more than help. I know this from personal experience. You may want to have someone knowledgeable in this area take a look at it. I had to redo my first attempt, and accuracy improved greatly after.

Also, how far from the lands are you seating your bullets? That will often have an effect on accuracy. If you have not tried different bullet seating depths that is something I would look into a bit as well.

 

[rogn]

Savages QC dept does show up every day, but dont be discouraged yet. If the barrel looks like corrugated drain pipe call, and tell them about it. Ive never sent anything back but Ive had long converstions and they seem very willing to correct a bad problem. Be sure to chaeck all basics also, swap scope, check all fittings, look for gap between recoil lug and barrel or action---------Other loads, Ive always ha d great results w/ H4350, H4381, CCI-BR2s 95 Noslers, 85 Noslers. Nevr had the best luck w/powders you mentioned.

 

[tnhunter]

try some 85 gr sierra BTHP over varget. I have had good luck with them in all my 243s.

 

[stevo597]

Kanny474, I've read about those before and I'd like to give 'em a try. I'm from Canada though so it may take some looking to find them to say the least..most of the cool or helpful things I find for shooting are from the USA and are hard to get in Canada, even rifles sometimes ugh. And none taken, I'm not the experienced, I've improved a couple rimfires before so i felt comfortable trying my centerfire, there's a good smith bout an hour away from me and maybe i'll get him to have a look.

rogn and tnhunter, ill give some of those components a try today. Ill try giving them a call, couldn't hurt that's for sure.

Thnaks for the advice so far everyone, it's much appreciated.

 

[Varminator]

stevo,
You stated that you bedded the recoil lug. Did you add several layers of duct tape at the bottom and trim off to prevent the bottom of the recoil lug from bottoming out and therefore prevent the action from tweaking when you tighten the screws.
Mark

 

[82boy]

You may want to list over at www.savageshooters.com

I have seen the same post over and over again, and I would say two thing stick out to me.

1. What scope are you using? I would say 99% of all accuracy problems come back to a bad scope. Just because a scope is new or a top name doesn't make it good. Low ends scope you do get what you pay for. Try a scope that you know is good.

2. I would say you are not using the most idea powders for your combo, and try some different bullets, it just may be your barrel dosen't like what you tiring to feed it. One combo that always worked good for me was benchmark powder and 70gr Sierra match king bullet. Try 4350 powder with the 90 grs.

A few other observations. Savage barrels shoot there best when they are dirty. This is not a custom benchrest barrel, let it get about 20 rounds down the barrel worth of fouling and then see if it still groups bad.

You never mentioned what your resting the gun on, shooting on a sleeping bag propped over the hood of your car will never produce tight groups. Also are you using any kind of flag? You might want to.

Last, what is your level of rifle experience? Are you capable of shooting less than a 2 inch group? Rifle group shooting takes practice, you can just expect to pick up a gun, and shoot a tight group if you have never shot a scoped rifle for group before.

I know the others are tiring to help you, but I don't believe it is the rifle, I believe it has other things involved. My money is on the scope.

 

[stevo597]

well i took it to a local shop owner who knows a thing or two and got some 4350 while i was at it. on his advice, i cleaned it with kroil and jb, A LOT of black patches later and it seems to be clean now (whoa).

Varminator, that is something i did not do (taping the recoil lug), perhaps i'll have to remove some bedding compound from under the lug?? 82boy, i am shooting off an mtm predator rest in the prone on a cement pad. My starting loads were 5 shots into 5/8"@100yds. after trying even to duplicate that load, I am still getting 2" groups with it. :s I do have experience shooting scoped rifles also, not in competition or anything but have always strived for accuracy.

 

[bulletbill]

Yeah clear the bedding under the lug. Do the sides while you're at it. Just the rear should be in contact with bedding.

Also what's the round count on the barrel? Stock savage barrels tend to settle down after a 100 or so rounds.

 

[stevo597]

Alright, I've tried everything lol I tried switching scopes just in case only to find out i have a good scope on it. I am still getting 1.5-2" groups at best from it so I think it's time to sell it. I'll ensure it goes to someone who is just looking to get into hunting and not into target shooting or anything. It seems to shoot affordable factory rounds into 1.5" or sometimes a touch less so I'm sure the new owner will be happy with it.

Thanks for all the advice from everyone. I will now sell with confidence that there wasn't something I didn't try. In between saving for school and stuff, I'll save for a real nice rifle

-steve