Help Me Read These Targets...

[titanxt]

There was a break in the weather today so I san out to the range. It was about 20-degrees, but the wind was fairly calm for the most part. I had only 29 rounds loaded due to being out of bullets, but I thought that I would give it a go anyways. I used AA2230 powder and 50-grain Sierra Blitzkings. The rifle was a off-the-shelf Remington Model 7 Predator in 223 Rem.

I loaded nine different groups of three - starting with 24.0 grains, then 24.5, and ending with 25.0 grains. Within the powder ranges, the groups of three differed by either being seated to jam, -.002, and -.004. (I hope I explained that correctly...)

Here are the targets. They are listed in order and are shot from top to bottom (they are also numbered in pencil on the upper left of each bulls-eye)>

Other than thinking that the rifle preferred the -.02 seating depth, is there anything else to learn? I would not know a node if it slapped me in the face...

The last time I took some rounds out to test, the group size for 24.0 grains was really nice as well, however, I am wondering if this gun shoots better right off the bat and with a cleaner barrel. What are your thoughts?

Thank you!

Andy

 

[Lapua40X]

I wouldn't feel confident with a variable of only .002 in seating depth from one load to the next.

If you could please, explain what that means and how I should go about seating the rounds next time.

Thank you!
Andy

PM

 

[titanxt]

If you could please, explain what that means and how I should go about seating the rounds next time.

Thank you!
Andy

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Moving the seating in 20 thou steps is a lot. I generally try and move 5 thou at a time. Secondly, not many folk measure seating in hundredths of an inch. To get good feedback use std measurements.
Regards
JCS

 

[BradY]

If its a varmint rifle your not going to want to be jamming bullets for fear of sticking one in the rifling while unloading. Asking for trouble. I would suggest pick one thing at a time to change. Set your bullets at say 10 thou jump and leave them there. Start at 24gr of powder and work up slowly in 0.2gr increments for the 223 case. For my varmint rifles, which range is probably going to be 300yds, maybe a touch more I will just do a normal ladder test which is fire one shot of each charge at the same point of aim without changing the scope. You will see a couple of shots land near each other before the next will seem to jump away. Then go back and start shooting 3 or 5 shot groups of the middle charge of what showed in your ladder test. Once your happy you have a powder charge that is consistent you can vary seating depth 3-5 thou at a time further out to see if it will tighten or open up.

 

[titanxt]

I apologize... it wasn't until I read the above responses that I realized that I wrote down .02 on my targets and then repeated it in the original thread. I will go back and edit it to be 2/thousandths.

Thank you!

Andy

 

[bsc4444]

+ 1 on BY1983

 

[Danattherock]

Sampling size is too small to mean anything. But it's always nice to get out and squeeze off a few rounds. Especially this time of year.

Personally, I like shooting 10 shot groups when testing anything, powder, seating depth, etc. I would also be more inclined to vary seating depth 0.005-0.010" between the others tested.

But I also settle on a powder charge first, then tweak with seating depth last. I think you have way too small a sampling to have any significant data, and the fact that your simultaneously testing various powder charges and seating depths is odd to me. But I'm pretty new to reloading, so take with a grain of salt.


Dan

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Simultaneous testing of powder charge and seating depth is very efficient. Tony Boyer's book describes it beautifully, with examples. Here's one of my own tests, with 3 charge weights (33.5, 34.1, 34.7gr) and 4 seating depths (Wilson stem 1.737 jam, 1.742, 1.747, and 1.752). These are 3-shot groups at 100 yards.

 

[Danattherock]

You guys seem to have a lot of faith in three shot groups. Is that normal for most folks working up loads? I usually shoot 7-10 shot groups, but that's to take me and luck out of the equation. Well, more so at any rate.


Dan

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

Just so we don't have to beat this dead horse again

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3860583.0

 

[Danattherock]

Jesus

What a thread. See you guys in a few days.


Dan

 

[Toby Bradshaw]

See you guys in a few days.

;D

To be fair, much of that thread isn't worth reading. You'll figure it out, I'm sure.

 

[Danattherock]

Just so we don't have to beat this dead horse again

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3860583.0

Well, that was about as much fun as slamming my pecker in a door. Tough listening to grown men act like schoolgirls. But I found a pearl in that turd pond. Enough to change my ways, and save on components too.

I've shot lots of great 3 -4 shot bug holes only to find the next round an inch off course. In an attempt to not cheat, I may have inadvertently been swimming upstream.

Just the other day I had my Barnes Precision AR15 with Krieger 20" out and was testing 77 SMK molys against Nosler CC 77's. I shot 4 shots that would have been 0.4", great for my skill level. But the 5th shot opened the group up to an inch. Painful.


Dan

If all is same they should the point here is do you shoot 3 shots or five in load developing, my point is if you shoot 3 down range and the group is 1"+ those next two don't make it smaller.

But then if you shoot 3 down and they go in same hole and the next two go outside the hole some will say that's not a good load. And give up on it. Where if three go in one hole that gives you something to look at and retry again.

When I load develop I look for three shots that create a triangular group. That gives me something to work with, I can add more powder, use a different neck bushing or a different primer to shrink that triangular group to one hole.


If the three shots shoot some crazy horizontal and or verticle group it just ain't gonna work it only magnifies at longer distances, at least in my findings shooting long range it has.

Thanks James

 

[JamesnTN]

Simultaneous testing of powder charge and seating depth is very efficient. Tony Boyer's book describes it beautifully, with examples. Here's one of my own tests, with 3 charge weights (33.5, 34.1, 34.7gr) and 4 seating depths (Wilson stem 1.737 jam, 1.742, 1.747, and 1.752). These are 3-shot groups at 100 yards.

It's clear to say it likes the 1.752 length

 

[abishai]

Primer ?

 

[BradY]

The only last point I will add, is this is obviously a varmint rifle, not a competition rifle. Going to elaborate lengths probably isnt worth it. If it were a PPC or F Class rifle then sure go for it. But being a varmint load, just work up a powder charge with a ladder test, tweak seating depth and go shoot some varmints is my preferred option.

 

[titanxt]

I am using Winchester primers.

Thank you!

Andy