Help me pick a caliber, I still don't find it

[Colo-PR]

I suggest you will not achieve the results you want until you improve the gun you are using.

A better barrel and a better action/trigger will make a big difference. If you really want to shoot one hole targets on a consistent basis, a custom action and barrel is the answer. In addition, a more accurate rifle is needed to actually see the results of changing loads or loading techniques.

Don't spend any more money on a factory rifle, save up for a custom action, bedded in a stock, a Krieger, Brux, or Bartlien or other big name barrel and a good trigger.

You will also need a good front rest (with a stop to repeatably locate the front of the stock) and good rear bag.

I suggest that 6mmBR is the easiest to load, high accuracy cartridge. 30 gr of Varget with a Berger 105 hybrid is a starting point, and may well produce your one holer. Cases seem to last forever. You can run standard necks without neck turning.

I suggest you avoid the 6PPC. While super accurate, to get that accuracy, it runs at such high pressure that the cases don't last very long before the primers will be very loose. They require fireforming from a 220 Russian (or hydroforming), and require neck turning.

While you are saving up for a new rifle, I suggest your Savage in 6BR is your best bet for now, depending on the twist rate. The 105 Berger needs an 8 twist or faster, if yours is slower, you need to use a lighter bullet. It can be equipped with a name brand barrel ( yes I know I said don't spend any money on it) but it may do the job as is with the factory barrel as you polish your skills.

Perfect your shooting skills, ie, placement of gun on bags being repeatable, hold, ie free recoil or actually holding the rifle in a repeatable manner, careful, repeatable trigger pull, and a consistent sight picture.

I am seriously considering go back to 6BR again as most of the people are saying. I may didn't explained myself very well but I sold the Savage, I actually have a Bergara Premier

 

[Colo-PR]

Looks like most folks recommend 6br or 6PPC and Google is not helping me, what are the differences between 6br and 6 PPC? in the pictures looks identical.

 

[expiper]

6mm BR...Roger,,,,

 

[drover]

(I apologize if I am putting this in the wrong section, please move if necessary)

My specific case is kind of different so please bear with me. I cant find a caliber that suit my precision shooting needs.

What I am looking?

- I enjoy handloading even more than shooting, I love all the process and work with all of those tools. I recently started getting in to annealing, trimming, neck turn, primer pocket uniform, concentricity check and even want to start pointing bullets, I enjoy that stuff, way more fun than watch TV.

- I DONT shoot more than 100 yards which my local indoor club has, my farthest club is 200, ranges with more than that I dont even know where they are plus I'm not interested.

- My goal is to produce a round that with a good rifle I can put 3 shots in one hole at 100 yards quite repeatable , Im not in to competition (pretty busy life)

- As I am getting old calibers with big recoil are not enjoyable for me.

- I am not a hunter, not PRS, not Fclass, just poke holes on paper looking for that super awesome round for bench rest or prone, thats what pleases me.

What I have tried?

- 308 on a Remington 700, too much recoil and not enjoyable.
- 6.5 Creed on an AR10, too much recoil and I dont need that much for only 100 yards, plus prefer bolt action.
- 6mm Creed, just bought a Bergara Premier HMR and only shot it once and while the caliber is ok still quite more that the recoil I will like, plus Im kind of disappointed with the Bergara's barrel, didn't noticed on pictures before buy it online that the barrel contour is like a pencil, I like stuff more robust like bull barrel, etc, I guess like what the guys use on Fclass? I am even consider it re-barrel it but gosh, dont even shot 50 rounds yet lol.
- 6mmBR on a Savage 12 BR and while the recoil was ok I was never able to get those 3 shots in one hole (my handloading process was not as extensive as now). Plus the caliber was so weird in my hands lol

So, my thoughts:

While 223 is a very nice caliber regarding recoil I never see it on any type of precision competition shooting so makes me thing that is not that great, and when I look for info about it everybody has to mention that is not for long range (we have to remember, I am shooting 100 yards) so can't find any concrete information about if is accurate for my intentions or not. Plus I dont see any reputable brand making .223 bolt rifles, I cant even find Rem 700 on .223.

I think my perfect caliber will be something like a .22 Magnum BUT, I cant reload it and as stated at the beginning thats the part I most enjoy.

So, what caliber do you recommend me that I can find a decent rifle or barrel for my purpose? I told you at the beginning "Im kind of different" than the norm, everybody seems to be in the 6.5 bandwagon shooting very long ranges, I'm too moron to read winds, do calculations on the fly, deal with mirage etc, deal with thousands of an inch in my reloading room is way more fun haha ;-)

If it dont exist I guess I'll stick to 6mm or 6mmBR.

I will appreciate any advice.

A 222 or 223 will fill all of your needs. Very low recoil, very accurate with a slight edge to the 222. The 222 ruled the shortrange benchrest for many years until the 6PPC came along. The biggest edge that the 6PPC has over the 222 is that it is slightly easier to shoot in the wind at 200 yds.

drover

 

[K22]

223 Rem in a Tikka T3X varmint model - meets most of your requirements. If you're into target shooting at under 200 yards I'd be looking for something that has a long barrel life, low recoil, cheap to reload, and accurate. This rifle meets those requirements.

The closest I have to a "one holer" is a Rem 700, 223 Rem with a heavy No. 5 contour Douglas match barrel, 12 twist shooting 50 grain Nosler bullets. It's a sub 1/4 moa rifle with tailored reloads.

I'm not a skilled bench shooter so this rifle might do better with a skilled bench guy but I rarely shoot off the bench - my range time is spent in practical practice sessions shooting off shooting sticks since I'm a varmint and predator hunter. Also it might do better with more advanced precision reloading methods but I neither have he patience or inclination for that sort of thing.

 

[dkhunt14]

I'd do a 6BR, 222, 6PPC. Get a Krieger or Bartlien. I wouldn't bother pointing if i was only shooting a hundred yards. The target isn't going to see a difference from the BC differences. Get some good bullets, probably custom. Matt

 

[rockrat]

How about a 7mm br or a 22 br

 

[drover]

go check out the shooters corner list and buy #387

Benchrest Rifles | The Shooters Corner

theshooterscorner.com

This is probably the best and most inexpensive reply so far.

OP - I am assuming from reading your posts and questions that you are not an experienced benchrest shooter, if you are then I apologize for my assumption.

There is a lot more to shoot a one-hole group than the cartridge, it takes a good rifle, trigger, bed job, a good set of windflags and the experience to know what they are telling you, and good components and the ability to load ammo that is up to the requirement - then, just then, you may begin to shoot the occassional one-shot group. One shot groups are not something that can be done on demand by most shooters regardless of how good they may be, as the saying goes "there are more one-shot groups on the internet than have ever been shot in competition".

I am still a fan of the 222 since it has the least recoil of what are considered competitive benchrest cartridges, the 6PPC has enough more that is will lilkely be noticed by someone who is recoil sensitive, but also there are a lot of good components available for it.

Good luck on your quest - drover

 

[Texas10]

I may have to try 6mmBR again, my experience was with a Savage 12 BR rifle and didnt found much on it. Can I chamber my current 6mm Creed on 6br? Im thinking on the different length of both cartridge's. Both are considered short action right?

Take that original Savage barrel off and put a custom on! You'll be delighted as you discover what you've been missing. And if you really want to get a case of the giggles, put a tuner on the new barrel.

 

[hoz53]

Take that original Savage barrel off and put a custom on! You'll be delighted as you discover what you've been missing. And if you really want to get a case of the giggles, put a tuner on the new barrel.

that woulda been my suggestion to but colo allready sold the savage.

 

[Sniper338]

quite a long list, can I find rifles chambered on that without have to sell my kidney?

Not likely. They arent mass produced cartridges. You would have to have a barrel made for a rifle/action with the correct bolt face. You won't get the accuracy your wanting from a factory rifle anyways.

 

[Dave Way]

I’d buy a 6mm 13 or 14 twist from any of the top manufacturers. Have it chambered in a 6PPC and put in on a rifle you like shooting already. A 308 bolt-face should extract a PPC case. Pick up some Norma brass or go the Lapua route and start with 220 Russian brass. Buy hand made bullets in the 65-68 grain range and go to town. There is a reason they dominate short range bench-rest and have for the last 46 years. Yes, it was developed in 1975 and is still the king. Think about how many cartridges have come and gone in the last 46 years let alone dominate a shooting discipline. To be honest, it’s pretty hard to make one shoot bad and I’m serious about that.

Dave.

 

[TexasC]

Check out this thread

Howa mini action in 6mm arc

Here is my newly built rifle by www.dpgunworks.com 6mm arc 24 1/2 Sendero barrel 1/7 twist from x caliber barrels.

forum.accurateshooter.com

I would not put on a fast twist barrel but a 1:12 and shoot up to 75gr Hornady Vmax 55gr Noslers when the wind is calm.

 

[LHSmith]

A 308 bolt-face should extract a PPC case.

Dave.

I don't think this to be true in most cases- at least not with 100% reliability. I've spent a lot of $$ overcoming this obstacle.

 

[Dave Way]

I don't think this to be true in most cases- at least not with 100% reliability. I've spent a lot of $$ overcoming this obstacle.

You may be correct. The rifle I used to switch back and forth between PPC and .308 sized cartridges had a Panda action. Others may not work as well. Thanks for pointing it out.

Dave.

 

[EOD Rob]

I would stick in the 6mm world. It is much easier to find high BC bullets that will give you the accuracy you are looking for. They also tend to have much lower recoil then the bigger calibers.
6BR/6x45/6ARC/6PPC would all make great choices for you and are easy to reload for.
I have a 6ARC and 6x45 and love both. I will say thou, I do love the horsepower of my 6 Creed!

 

[Burnt Powder]

If loading your own is what you enjoy the most, then case forming and prep should be an added bonus for you. It is for me! My recommendation is to build yourself a tight neck 22BR. The cases aren’t all that difficult to form and if my chamber wasn’t a tight neck I wouldn’t have to turn necks either. I don’t mind doing it and I like the results.

if you don’t want to enjoy case forming and brass prep, go with a 6BR or a .222. I like the BR over the PPC because of the standard bolt face. I prefer the .222 over the .223 for what you want to do because of the longer neck. I actually make my most accurate brass for it by forming .223 down to .222. It makes my necks a little thicker and they fit better in the standard field chamber of my ‘70s vintage Sako Vixen. If I wanted a bug holer I’d use a bigger action with a Kreiger barrel and a tight neck match chamber. I like my many other chambered rifles that shoot quite well, such as a 260 Rem improved, 7-08, 22-250, and yes a .223, but considering perforating paper is your objective I’d keep my component cost to a minimum. .224 bullets are cheaper and powder charges for the .222 and 22BR aren’t too big. The right chambering, action, and components won’t do a thing for you if you don’t have good glass! You won’t be shooting bug holes with a hundred dollar 3x9 duplex scope with 1 mil crosshairs and $25 mounts and rings, no matter what you mount it on.

 

[hoz53]

(I apologize if I am putting this in the wrong section, please move if necessary)

My specific case is kind of different so please bear with me. I cant find a caliber that suit my precision shooting needs.

What I am looking?

- I enjoy handloading even more than shooting, I love all the process and work with all of those tools. I recently started getting in to annealing, trimming, neck turn, primer pocket uniform, concentricity check and even want to start pointing bullets, I enjoy that stuff, way more fun than watch TV.

- I DONT shoot more than 100 yards which my local indoor club has, my farthest club is 200, ranges with more than that I dont even know where they are plus I'm not interested.

- My goal is to produce a round that with a good rifle I can put 3 shots in one hole at 100 yards quite repeatable , Im not in to competition (pretty busy life)

- As I am getting old calibers with big recoil are not enjoyable for me.

- I am not a hunter, not PRS, not Fclass, just poke holes on paper looking for that super awesome round for bench rest or prone, thats what pleases me.

What I have tried?

- 308 on a Remington 700, too much recoil and not enjoyable.
- 6.5 Creed on an AR10, too much recoil and I dont need that much for only 100 yards, plus prefer bolt action.
- 6mm Creed, just bought a Bergara Premier HMR and only shot it once and while the caliber is ok still quite more that the recoil I will like, plus Im kind of disappointed with the Bergara's barrel, didn't noticed on pictures before buy it online that the barrel contour is like a pencil, I like stuff more robust like bull barrel, etc, I guess like what the guys use on Fclass? I am even consider it re-barrel it but gosh, dont even shot 50 rounds yet lol.
- 6mmBR on a Savage 12 BR and while the recoil was ok I was never able to get those 3 shots in one hole (my handloading process was not as extensive as now). Plus the caliber was so weird in my hands lol

So, my thoughts:

While 223 is a very nice caliber regarding recoil I never see it on any type of precision competition shooting so makes me thing that is not that great, and when I look for info about it everybody has to mention that is not for long range (we have to remember, I am shooting 100 yards) so can't find any concrete information about if is accurate for my intentions or not. Plus I dont see any reputable brand making .223 bolt rifles, I cant even find Rem 700 on .223.

I think my perfect caliber will be something like a .22 Magnum BUT, I cant reload it and as stated at the beginning thats the part I most enjoy.

So, what caliber do you recommend me that I can find a decent rifle or barrel for my purpose? I told you at the beginning "Im kind of different" than the norm, everybody seems to be in the 6.5 bandwagon shooting very long ranges, I'm too moron to read winds, do calculations on the fly, deal with mirage etc, deal with thousands of an inch in my reloading room is way more fun haha ;-)

If it dont exist I guess I'll stick to 6mm or 6mmBR.

I will appreciate any advice.

Well Colo-- So you have a 100 Yd indoor range to shoot at? Ive read through this whole thread to see what i can pick up from these guys. You have some very good shooters advising you in this thread. Alot of good info and you should be able to make up your mind from it. One thing a few guys mentioned is glass.
What kind/power scope did you use when shooting. If you used a10 power at 100 yds its not surprising your groups arent the best. My eyes arent the best but when i wanna shoot the best groups i can at 100 yds i use a 12x42 scope set on 42 power. ya gotta be able to see to shoot good groups. Anyway as part of your bughole shooter youll need a quality high powered scope to be most successful. I hope youve got a good idea what youre gonna do now.

 

[cotntop]

I have been through just what you are looking at now. The 2 rifles I go to when I like to have fun shooting, 6BR built on a Rem action and a .223 Rem LTR with a suppressor. That little .223 is so fun and might not shoot one hole but it will come close pretty much all the time. The 6BR rifles are too accurate unless you shoot competition. Really good advice in this thread, wish I had found it about 30yr ago. Would had been a money saver.

 

[Colo-PR]

Well Colo-- So you have a 100 Yd indoor range to shoot at? Ive read through this whole thread to see what i can pick up from these guys. You have some very good shooters advising you in this thread. Alot of good info and you should be able to make up your mind from it. One thing a few guys mentioned is glass.
What kind/power scope did you use when shooting. If you used a10 power at 100 yds its not surprising your groups arent the best. My eyes arent the best but when i wanna shoot the best groups i can at 100 yds i use a 12x42 scope set on 42 power. ya gotta be able to see to shoot good groups. Anyway as part of your bughole shooter youll need a quality high powered scope to be most successful. I hope youve got a good idea what youre gonna do now.

Im using a Sightrong 8x52, not the super best in the market but in the 1,200 range

Yes, I only shoot at my 100 yards indoor range, so variables like wind are not existent.